Lil Gun or H110 in 40 S&W

flashhole · August 12, 2009, 04:39 PM

Has anyone used these powders in a 40 Smith and Wesson load? If yes, do you mind sharing your load data?

Doodlebugger45 · August 12, 2009, 04:43 PM

I'm afraid I have no advice to offer. But I was just curious to know why you would want to try those powders in that cartridge? Those powders are typically used in the big bore magnums for the really hot loads. There are tons of powders out there that can meet or exceed the .40 pressure and velocity limits a lot more efficiently than H110 or LilGun. Like I said, I was just asking to try to learn more for my self.

flashhole · August 12, 2009, 05:00 PM

I have 4 pounds of it.

BigJimP · August 12, 2009, 05:03 PM

I'm not using them in .40S&W - and Hodgdon doesn't really recommend them as powders in that caliber .. and your load is going to depend on what type of bullet you load of course - but Universal, HP-38, TiteGroup or Clays are more common in this caliber.

Personally, I use TiteGroup - and with a 180gr jacketed bullet - the range is 4.2 grains Minimum and 4.7 grains max on TiteGroup / on my loads I load to 4.3 grains as my standard. TiteGroup is giving me real consistent loads and a real clean burn ( I use CCI primers, and Montana Gold 180gr CMJ bullets ).

**Unclenick** · August 12, 2009, 05:07 PM

I tried them in QuickLOAD with 180 and 200 grain bullets. Even filling the case 100% (no compression) neither could get past 11,000 psi nor past burning only about a third of the powder in the gun. The rest went out the tube. In reality, these may well squib out. The powder burning volume behind the bullet grows too rapidly with bullet movement to let that small quantity of powder get burning thoroughly.

Running a table to see which powder produces maximum velocity, Alliant Power Pistol (compressed) and Accurate No.7 came out on top for the 180 grain bullet. Bullseye, Accurate No. 5 and Ramshot Silhouette did best with the 200. That's because, using the same COL, too little space is left under that bullet to burn anything that isn't pretty quick. For a 155 grain bullet, again, Power Pistol and No.7 were near the top. So as long as you stay at 180 grains and below, I think those two are your best bets. H110 and Lil' Gun are non-starters.

BigJimP · August 12, 2009, 05:12 PM

I use the load tables ( I'm no chemist ) - but I think H 110 and Lil Gun are too bulky for loads in a .40 S&W case ......

I don't care for H 110 at all - so I don't use it.

I use Lil Gun in .410 shotshells - and I know guys that use it in .357 mag ( for 158gr bullets ) and in .44 mag for 240gr bullets / and Lil Gun will fit into those cases ( dropping 18gr in .357 mag / 24 gr in .44 mag ) - and while I wouldn't hazard a guess on how much you would need in . 40S&W , I think its fair to say, you might need 15 - 18 grains ( and please don't just guess and test it ...).

H 110 and Lil Gun in the burn rate tables - Hodgdon puts out - they are both some of the slowest burning powders they produce intended for pistol or shotshell loads.

Doodlebugger45 · August 12, 2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

I have 4 pounds of it.

Ahhhh... excellent reason.

Surely you can find someone to swap your H110 or LilGun for some good ole 231 or TiteGroup. Around here it's hard to find H110 or 296 and impossible to find LilGun, but 231 is nearly blowing in the streets.

flashhole · August 12, 2009, 07:38 PM

Nick - Thanks, I suspected as much or I'd have found some load data on the internet. Even obscure loads have a way of popping up from time to time if you search hard enough.

JimP - Hodgdon lists both for the Fireball that I have. I used to load 357 Magnum, that's how I came by the H110. Lil Gun I bought because of the hype I read in the gun rags about it being a wonder powder for the Fireball. Not too accurate in my gun. I've since settled on Reloader #7 for my Fireball. I still use Lil Gun to fire-form 221 brass that I craft from 223 Remington. Haven't tried the H110 but load data is listed for it.

I've yet to buy powder for my 40 S&W. Haven't had the time to do it right so I just put it on the back burner for now. I will be casting 175 grain bullets for it and figured those powders might be suitable for use for low velocity loads but like I said above, couldn't find a hint of load data anywhere.

Thanks guys.

bedlamite · August 12, 2009, 08:33 PM

Lil Gun and H110 are too slow for 40S&W. H110 works great in 357 and 44 mag. 40S&W works better with Universal or Unique for lighter loads, Longshot or Power Pistol for hotter loads.

August 12, 2009, 04:39 PM	#1
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Lil Gun or H110 in 40 S&W Has anyone used these powders in a 40 Smith and Wesson load? If yes, do you mind sharing your load data? __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

August 12, 2009, 05:00 PM	#3
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	I have 4 pounds of it. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

August 12, 2009, 05:07 PM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	I tried them in QuickLOAD with 180 and 200 grain bullets. Even filling the case 100% (no compression) neither could get past 11,000 psi nor past burning only about a third of the powder in the gun. The rest went out the tube. In reality, these may well squib out. The powder burning volume behind the bullet grows too rapidly with bullet movement to let that small quantity of powder get burning thoroughly. Running a table to see which powder produces maximum velocity, Alliant Power Pistol (compressed) and Accurate No.7 came out on top for the 180 grain bullet. Bullseye, Accurate No. 5 and Ramshot Silhouette did best with the 200. That's because, using the same COL, too little space is left under that bullet to burn anything that isn't pretty quick. For a 155 grain bullet, again, Power Pistol and No.7 were near the top. So as long as you stay at 180 grains and below, I think those two are your best bets. H110 and Lil' Gun are non-starters. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; August 12, 2009 at 05:12 PM.

August 12, 2009, 07:38 PM	#8
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Nick - Thanks, I suspected as much or I'd have found some load data on the internet. Even obscure loads have a way of popping up from time to time if you search hard enough. JimP - Hodgdon lists both for the Fireball that I have. I used to load 357 Magnum, that's how I came by the H110. Lil Gun I bought because of the hype I read in the gun rags about it being a wonder powder for the Fireball. Not too accurate in my gun. I've since settled on Reloader #7 for my Fireball. I still use Lil Gun to fire-form 221 brass that I craft from 223 Remington. Haven't tried the H110 but load data is listed for it. I've yet to buy powder for my 40 S&W. Haven't had the time to do it right so I just put it on the back burner for now. I will be casting 175 grain bullets for it and figured those powders might be suitable for use for low velocity loads but like I said above, couldn't find a hint of load data anywhere. Thanks guys. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

August 12, 2009, 08:33 PM	#9
bedlamite Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2000 Location: WI Posts: 1,395	Lil Gun and H110 are too slow for 40S&W. H110 works great in 357 and 44 mag. 40S&W works better with Universal or Unique for lighter loads, Longshot or Power Pistol for hotter loads. __________________ A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.

August 12, 2009, 04:43 PM	#2
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	I'm afraid I have no advice to offer. But I was just curious to know why you would want to try those powders in that cartridge? Those powders are typically used in the big bore magnums for the really hot loads. There are tons of powders out there that can meet or exceed the .40 pressure and velocity limits a lot more efficiently than H110 or LilGun. Like I said, I was just asking to try to learn more for my self.

August 12, 2009, 05:03 PM	#4
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I'm not using them in .40S&W - and Hodgdon doesn't really recommend them as powders in that caliber .. and your load is going to depend on what type of bullet you load of course - but Universal, HP-38, TiteGroup or Clays are more common in this caliber. Personally, I use TiteGroup - and with a 180gr jacketed bullet - the range is 4.2 grains Minimum and 4.7 grains max on TiteGroup / on my loads I load to 4.3 grains as my standard. TiteGroup is giving me real consistent loads and a real clean burn ( I use CCI primers, and Montana Gold 180gr CMJ bullets ).

August 12, 2009, 05:12 PM	#6
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I use the load tables ( I'm no chemist ) - but I think H 110 and Lil Gun are too bulky for loads in a .40 S&W case ...... I don't care for H 110 at all - so I don't use it. I use Lil Gun in .410 shotshells - and I know guys that use it in .357 mag ( for 158gr bullets ) and in .44 mag for 240gr bullets / and Lil Gun will fit into those cases ( dropping 18gr in .357 mag / 24 gr in .44 mag ) - and while I wouldn't hazard a guess on how much you would need in . 40S&W , I think its fair to say, you might need 15 - 18 grains ( and please don't just guess and test it ...). H 110 and Lil Gun in the burn rate tables - Hodgdon puts out - they are both some of the slowest burning powders they produce intended for pistol or shotshell loads.