Cut powder

deepcore · August 21, 2011, 11:12 PM

I've been "listening" to the weigh vs volume powder charge (specifically for rifle) discussion on this forum (when it comes up) with regards to accuracy and the use of either technique.

I may have missed a thread on my specific question with regards to the debate.. My apologies if it's been asked and answered before:

Using the volume charge method...when the charger cuts stick powder granules....does the cutting of granules of a portion of the charge have a (negligible/acceptable) effect?

Sort of similar to a "tiny" difference in charge weight with the other method?

TXGunNut · August 21, 2011, 11:35 PM

That bothers me as well but apparently it doesn't bother the powder noticeably. If you were to somehow cut every stick of powder in a charge it may affect the burn rate somewhat. I think if you operate the measure in a deliberate manner so that you shear the offending sticks cleanly you should get a uniform charge.
OTOH I bought an RCBS ChargeMaster so I wouldn't have to worry about cutting sticks of powder.

PA-Joe · August 22, 2011, 01:46 PM

You should be calibrating your measure with a scale. You will be cutting some of the powder but not enough to make a difference. Most of the powder companies are now making short-cut mixtures to help eliminate this metering issue.

deepcore · August 22, 2011, 08:13 PM

Quote:

You should be calibrating your meaure with a scale

I do. Don't know how, or of, another way to set up a volume charger.

oneoldsap · August 23, 2011, 02:35 PM

I'll bet PA-Joe doesn't know another way either !

Nevmavrick · August 23, 2011, 03:38 PM

Some of the responders are thinking from the point of view that a cut kernal burns faster, but I believe the question is what is the end-effect.
When you cut a kernal, you need a little pressure, and get more vibration. The answer would depend on how the measure is mounted. Mine is mounted to a very heavy table with a 12" square piece of steel bolted to it. There are two 3/8" bolts thru the pedestal into the steel. There is almost no vibration, so there is almost no variation in powder charges. The best thing you can do, is to throw several charges and notice the charge weight in the charge AFTER the cut kernal.
Depending on what cartridge, charge weight, and powder, as to if the variation is too much.
The use of a measure causes some consistency issues, anyway, so it depends on what is acceptable.
Have fun,
Gene

oneoldsap · August 23, 2011, 07:41 PM

I always set my measure to dump a couple tenths light and trickle to target weight ! Never done it any other way !

Jim243 · August 23, 2011, 08:50 PM

I also wondered what effect it would have, never seen a cut grain in 7 years of reloading. I was doing it the Oneoldsap way. Then went with a RCBS Chargemaster 1500 (no way for it to cut any powder). It does throw a tenth of a grain over now and then, but no big deal I just dump it back into the hopper.

Seems that that small of a variance would have little effect, but what do I know never having seen one.

Jim

Sport45 · August 23, 2011, 09:04 PM

I wonder if we're hearing grains being cut, or just the sound of them popping out of the way. The little buggers would be pretty hard to cut, being rather platic and all.

In any case, I quit worrying about that sound a long time ago. Doesn't seem to matter other than a weight variance if it messes with the smoothness of the throw.

Nevmavrick · August 26, 2011, 10:59 PM

My biggest concern is the difference of vibration, therefor changing the weight of the powder charge. I agree, throw the next charge back, or weigh it to see how much it varys.
Gene

TXGunNut · August 27, 2011, 10:23 AM

I avoided the issue by using a scoop & trickle method on an electronic scale. It's not a great method for large volumes but it's almost as fast as the ChargeMaster 1500 I'm using now. Big difference is that I can seat a bullet while the machine does the measuring. I use a powder measure for flake & ball powders, 1500 for the pesky sticks.

243winxb · August 27, 2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Using the volume charge method...when the charger cuts stick powder granules....does the cutting of granules of a portion of the charge have a (negligible/acceptable) effect?

Yes, the target does not notice the difference. I get about .3gr increase in weight with IMR 4350 & slightly less with IMR 4198 & 4895. Only a problem if the load is maximum. Then i weigh each charge.

Clifford L. Hughes · August 27, 2011, 01:57 PM

Deepcore:

I'm sort of old fashoned, I throw a charge of H4350 or H 4831 slightly under the charge wanted on to the sacle pan, then I use the tip of a table spoon to trickle up to the wanted charge. By using the same spoon you will soon learn how much powder to dip and need, in most cases, only two dips. Fast and efficient.

Semper Fi.

Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired

August 21, 2011, 11:12 PM	#1
deepcore Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2010 Posts: 364	Cut powder I've been "listening" to the weigh vs volume powder charge (specifically for rifle) discussion on this forum (when it comes up) with regards to accuracy and the use of either technique. I may have missed a thread on my specific question with regards to the debate.. My apologies if it's been asked and answered before: Using the volume charge method...when the charger cuts stick powder granules....does the cutting of granules of a portion of the charge have a (negligible/acceptable) effect? Sort of similar to a "tiny" difference in charge weight with the other method?

August 21, 2011, 11:35 PM	#2
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	That bothers me as well but apparently it doesn't bother the powder noticeably. If you were to somehow cut every stick of powder in a charge it may affect the burn rate somewhat. I think if you operate the measure in a deliberate manner so that you shear the offending sticks cleanly you should get a uniform charge. OTOH I bought an RCBS ChargeMaster so I wouldn't have to worry about cutting sticks of powder. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

August 22, 2011, 01:46 PM	#3
PA-Joe Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: NEPA Posts: 909	You should be calibrating your measure with a scale. You will be cutting some of the powder but not enough to make a difference. Most of the powder companies are now making short-cut mixtures to help eliminate this metering issue. Last edited by PA-Joe; August 23, 2011 at 05:26 PM.

August 23, 2011, 08:50 PM	#8
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	I also wondered what effect it would have, never seen a cut grain in 7 years of reloading. I was doing it the Oneoldsap way. Then went with a RCBS Chargemaster 1500 (no way for it to cut any powder). It does throw a tenth of a grain over now and then, but no big deal I just dump it back into the hopper. Seems that that small of a variance would have little effect, but what do I know never having seen one. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

August 23, 2011, 09:04 PM	#9
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	I wonder if we're hearing grains being cut, or just the sound of them popping out of the way. The little buggers would be pretty hard to cut, being rather platic and all. In any case, I quit worrying about that sound a long time ago. Doesn't seem to matter other than a weight variance if it messes with the smoothness of the throw. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

August 23, 2011, 02:35 PM	#5
oneoldsap Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2009 Location: I live in the foot of the Green Mountains of Vermont Posts: 1,602	I'll bet PA-Joe doesn't know another way either !

August 23, 2011, 03:38 PM	#6
Nevmavrick Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2010 Location: Sparks, Nevada, near Reno Posts: 183	Some of the responders are thinking from the point of view that a cut kernal burns faster, but I believe the question is what is the end-effect. When you cut a kernal, you need a little pressure, and get more vibration. The answer would depend on how the measure is mounted. Mine is mounted to a very heavy table with a 12" square piece of steel bolted to it. There are two 3/8" bolts thru the pedestal into the steel. There is almost no vibration, so there is almost no variation in powder charges. The best thing you can do, is to throw several charges and notice the charge weight in the charge AFTER the cut kernal. Depending on what cartridge, charge weight, and powder, as to if the variation is too much. The use of a measure causes some consistency issues, anyway, so it depends on what is acceptable. Have fun, Gene

August 23, 2011, 07:41 PM	#7
oneoldsap Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2009 Location: I live in the foot of the Green Mountains of Vermont Posts: 1,602	I always set my measure to dump a couple tenths light and trickle to target weight ! Never done it any other way !

August 26, 2011, 10:59 PM	#10
Nevmavrick Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2010 Location: Sparks, Nevada, near Reno Posts: 183	My biggest concern is the difference of vibration, therefor changing the weight of the powder charge. I agree, throw the next charge back, or weigh it to see how much it varys. Gene

August 27, 2011, 10:23 AM	#11
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	I avoided the issue by using a scoop & trickle method on an electronic scale. It's not a great method for large volumes but it's almost as fast as the ChargeMaster 1500 I'm using now. Big difference is that I can seat a bullet while the machine does the measuring. I use a powder measure for flake & ball powders, 1500 for the pesky sticks. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

August 27, 2011, 01:57 PM	#13
Clifford L. Hughes Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2011 Location: Southern Californis Posts: 795	Deepcore: I'm sort of old fashoned, I throw a charge of H4350 or H 4831 slightly under the charge wanted on to the sacle pan, then I use the tip of a table spoon to trickle up to the wanted charge. By using the same spoon you will soon learn how much powder to dip and need, in most cases, only two dips. Fast and efficient. Semper Fi. Gunnery sergeant Clifford L. Hughes USMC Retired