replacement nipples

[101combatvet]

I need a few replacements.... looks like someone has been dry firing on the originals and they are a bit smashed or just the wrong size? I have a tough time getting caps on four of the six nipples. Read that the Treso brand was good but brittle.... I take the nipples out after each shooting to clean.... don't need one breaking on me. Any suggestions?

[44 Dave]

I have chucked nipples in a drill and cleaned them up with a file to take the burr off. 'Till you get new ones.
I put Slix-Shot ones on one gun and like them, they take a #10 cap.

[Fingers McGee]

I've used Tresso nipples for years and have never broken one. I've switched over to Slix Shot nipples on all of my competition guns now though.

[mykeal]

Treso nipples brittle? Horse apples. Not so.

[Doc Hoy]

Because I don't shoot for competition I frequently come up with information which is questionable at best. So I refer to myself as a "goldmine of misinformation."

But

I replaced the original nipples on a Walker with Treso nipples. I had to do that because the original nipples were two different sizes and some of the chambers would not go off. (Nipples too short for the hammer to contact the cap.)

Apart from the fact that I was able to get all of the chambers to discharge on the first shot, I noticed no improvement in the performance of the pistol. Caps did not fit any better. No more or fewer fragments in the works.

I did not chrony the pistol before and after so I can't speak to ballistic performance, but IIUC for performance shooting MV is not a real consideration.

So, for me, the extra expense of Tresos did not seem to gain me anything. (Well, they do LOOK nice.)

[101combatvet]

Well... the Slix-Shot look and sound good but stainless? Rather keep them blued for now.

Saw this mentioned twice.... no truth?

"Tresco nipples are made from magnesium bronze, they will have a somewhat brittle crystaline structure. So, if the hammer is overtraveling, or the cone is too long, its only a short matter of time before the nipple will fail due to metal fatigue."

"Treso nipples are made from a proprietary bronze alloy called Ampco; it's very hard, and yes, it's brittle."

[Noz]

Post 3 and 4 say it all.

[mykeal]

Has anybody, ever, had a Treso/Ampco nipple break, or seen a post in any forum by anyone stating that they've had a Treso nipple break?

I'll save you the trouble: the answer is no. If I'm incorrect, please cite the reference.

Yes, they're made from a proprietary bronze alloy (beryllium, not magnesium) that is harder, and thus more brittle, than stainless steel. However, the hyperbolic statements: "...a short matter of time before the nipple will fail..." and "...very hard, and yes, it's brittle" are misleading; every metal alloy is brittle to some degree, and a short matter of time is actually years.

The hardness characteristic of the beryllium bronze alloy has two distinct advantages in the Treso application: it will resist "mushrooming" due to dry firing and gas cutting erosion in the flash channel longer than steel. In addition, Treso also implemented a smaller flash channel that concentrates the gas (a feature also present in the Slix Shot nipples).

[bedbugbilly]

+1 mykeal

I don't and haven't used 'em in my revolvers . . . yet . . BUT . . . I have an Ampco nipple on my Remington Zouave that I installed back in the late 1960's . . . I have literally fired thousands of rounds out of that rifle and it is as good today as the day I put it in.

I switched my steel nipple out of my under hammer and installed a Treso/Ampco type nipple in it . . . and it too, is in fine shape after quite a few years of shooting it.

I'm a little confused on the comment on "hammer overtravel". Yes, nipples come in various lengths and too short will not fire and too long can cause a problem as well. But . . . in a side lock rifle . . . the hammer is not finely adjusted so that it just hits the nipple hard enough to fire the cap . . . at least not in any percussion rifle I've seen or fired. As far as revolvers, the hammer has to strike the nipple to cause the cap to go off. Overtravel? Yea, I suppose the hammer can be adjusted to strike harder or softer depending on what you do to the mainspring . . . but it still has to hit the nipple.

And over the years, I've never heard of any problems with Treso/Ampco style nipples. Steel . . . yes. They're going to eventually peen and wear out. Personally, when the steel nipples wear out on my revolvers, I'll replace them with Treso or the Six Shooter you fellas are talking about. I don't really care what color nipples are as long as they work and the cap goes bang.

[mykeal]

it still has to hit the nipple

Actually, no it doesn't.

In a perfectly timed and adjusted c&b revolver the frame will stop the hammer fall just as the cap is struck by the hammer face, driving the lead azide material against the nipple surface. To set off the cap it's only necessary that the lead azide is mechanically 'shocked' against the nipple. The hammer need not squash the explosive material and the cap.

As you might guess this perfectly timed and adjusted condition is a bit unusual in the Italian imports; I have seen it a couple of times in those, and my ROA's are all that way.

[101combatvet]

Any of these nipples come in a blued finish?

[44 Dave]

I have Slix-Shot nipples in my 1860 and unless you you were to take and polish them they get dark real soon and can't be told apart from steal.
But if your just going to change to shiny nipples and hang it on the wall hit them with a black magic marker before you screw them in.

[101combatvet]

No... I plain on being a pistolero with it. I love shooting the thing.... even though the loading is a bit of a pain.

[101combatvet]

Ordered the Slix-Shot nipples. Can't wait to try them out.

[101combatvet]

Damn.... just got some SliX-Shot nipples. They went in fine but when I placed a cap on a few of the nipples noticed the same problem I was having with my original nipples. They are very tight and don't push onto the nipple very well. Is this common? Should I have to force them on with a screwdriver tip (flat side) or wooden dowel? I'm using CCI No. 10 which is what is recommended for the pistol and nipples. ***?

Tomorrow at the range to test fire.

[Fingers McGee]

101,

When I did my road test of the slix shots, I didn't have any CCI #10s to use; so I can't speak to their use; only to say that they are the smallest caps made. I used #10 and #11 Remingtons, #11 CCIs, and RWS 1075s. All of them fit the nipples and worked out just fine. IIRC the RWS caps fragmented more than the others though. Here's an old size chart:


From the chart, you can see why the CCI 10s were so tight.

[44 Dave]

The CCI caps are hard and do not have the little tabs that help Remington to expand. I have to push the CCI caps with a stick or make a little slit with an Exacto-knife if I plan to load fast.

[Nick S.]

I've had an Italian made .44 cal 1851 brass frame revolver since the 1970's but only fired it for the first time a few weeks ago. Loaded one chamber & fired it with no problem. Then I loaded all 6. After firing the 1st round all the other caps fell off & jammed up or fell on the ground. It's #11 caps & #11 nipples. Someone suggested squeezing the caps a little before I push them on. I just loaded & fired one shot at a time to keep things simple but I'd like to load & fire all 6. Should I go ahead & pinch the caps a little with my fingers?

[101combatvet]

I'm thinking maybe the bow and arrow are easier.

[mykeal]

Interesting. How do you know they are #11 nipples? What brand are the caps?

Pinching the caps is one solution.

[Fingers McGee]

Backblast through the nipple; and cap material flowing into the safety notch in the hammer an being pulled off the nipple are a couple of reasons. Cap material being soft or brittle allowing the caps to fragment is another.

I'm in a quandary on how unfired caps could fall off.

[mykeal]

I'm in a quandary on how unfired caps could fall off.

1) They're too big in the first place. This could also mean they're too short (eg, Remington No. 11's), since the nipple cone is tapered, and thus the caps don't fit down far enough to achieve a press fit.

2) The nipple could be deformed at the tip (mushroomed), resulting in a poor fit that is easily disturbed by a small shock load.

There may be other reasons I just didn't think of.

[Fingers McGee]

The only problem I see with that is the gap between the recoil shield and nipple on my revolvers is somewhere around .0625 to .125 inch (at least the five Colt's that I checked. I'd say Remingtons were similar). Even the Remington 11s are taller than that at around .145. I do not see where there is enough room; and that doesn't account for the thickness of the primer compound. I've never had an unfired cap fall off of a nipple.

One of the problems with the first batch of Slix Shot nipples for the Ubertis was that they were approximately .030 inch longer that stock nipples which caused the caps to rub the recoil shield. .03o isn't enough room for a cap to fall off.

[mykeal]

Again, two scenarios:

1) They don't come completely off until the chamber rotates into battery.

2) They come loose and jam against the recoil shield during rotation, and the action does have enough mechanical advantage to deform the loose caps if that happens. Each subsequent movement of the cylinder can add to the deformation until the damaged cap is pulled completely off.

Both of the above have happened to me.

[Fingers McGee]

I guess I have just lived a sheltered life to this point.