Sometimes It Take a Long Time

[RC20]

I have a Savage 308 with an XCB barrel I put on it. I've had it 3 years now.

Its always been mediocre by my standards (one barrel finishing guy (buys rifled blanks and threads and chambers them) had the audacity to say if it was 1 MOA that was all you can expect - he uses XCB barrels a lot).

I vehemently disagree, an after market barrel on a Savage should shoot no more than 5/8 MOA.

I have been working the the Hornady 168ELDs lately, they have shown flashes of brilliance as it were.

This last session one of the promising loads I had built up 30 for and some adjustment of the COAL and I got one group that barely broke 3/16 of an inch, another one right after that at 3/8.

Dark was coming on, bit of a wind and 25 degrees. Pretty tickled and a good way to end the day up.

While I would never buy another XCB barrel (its the same price as a Shilen and not finished as well) if it will shoot that consistently then its fine by me.

On the other hand the 30-06 Shillen barrel is shooting 125 gr Sierra hunting pills with not much load development 5/8. Not much it won't shoot like that (and better)

I had not expected it would take anything like this with a variety of bullets to get it to shoot (the XCB was slated to become a plant stake)

Good thing its a 308 and not a 243, I would have burned up the barrel by now.

This one should have another 4,000 rounds in it before it does the plant stake thing (and my wife is alwyas looking for stakes and good yard art!)

[hounddawg]

nice RC !

and your story makes twice today someone told me about a .308 that just came into it's own after 1500 rounds but that barrel had been shooting around .5 MOA for a year then suddenly dropped down into the threes

[kilotanker22]

I suppose the XCB Barrle was never properly lapped. That would be my guess. I have had some factory barrels that shoot superb right away. I have had some that took time.

The last couple of new Rem 700 rifles shot pretty bad out of the box. A little hand lapping and chamber polishing. Then shooting sub half MOA the next range trip.

I don't generally recommend lapping by the end user, but sometimes that's just what they need.

[RC20]

Looking at the two barrels, Shilen was clearly lapped and the XCB less so.

Still the XCB was cleaner than the Savage barrel(s) I have taken off.

When I was cleaning with Hoppes/Kroil, the Savage was hardest to clean, XCB next and the Shilen easiest.

In this case the H168ELD is new to my reloading and that seems to be what put it over the top.

XCB was available at the time, next barrel is either a Shilen or Criterion.

The H168ELD is showing promise in the LW barrel as well but stay tuned. Warmer weather will be more often and longer days to shoot now. I hate just a few hours at the range. All day a lot better.

[hounddawg]

Apparently the ELD bullets will shoot. I should have tried some in this Creedmoor not that it matters. The guy pulling the trigger is the weak link in the chain where my shooting is concerned

back to topic it was weird seeing this thread after a earlier discussion about the same thing

[std7mag]

RC20,
Couple of questions...

1) Which ELD bullet? X, or M?
2) Did you "tune" your action after the barrel swap?

Except for my wife's Savage110FP in 223 Rem, all my rifles are hunting rifles, hence i've been playing some with the ELDX hunting bullet. Fairly good results at the range thus far. But really no better, or worse that anyone elses bullets.

When i re-barreled my Stevens 200 from 7mm-08AI, to an E.R. Shaw barrel in 250 Savage, i had to "tune" my action for the new barrel/ cartridge.
Went from 1.5" at 100 to about 5/8" at 100.

[RC20]

ELD M.

I built up target rifles off Savage actions, so they have bull barrels.

Not something you would want to hunt with (well if you could sit on top of a mountain)

I am not sure what you mean by Tune the action. Put it in a Thumb Hole stock.

[T. O'Heir]

It's not just the barrel that shoots the groups.
"...would have burned up the barrel by now..." Nonsense.

[std7mag]

RC20,
There was an article of www.accurateshooter.com about tuning a Savage action.
It was posted by one of the guys that shoots matches for Savage.

Sounds like houey, but i can attest, it works.

[RC20]

It's not just the barrel that shoots the groups.
"...would have burned up the barrel by now..." Nonsense.

Really, thats good to know.,

And yes with a lower round count per 6.5/6/243 the barrel would be shot at my round count.

[GeauxTide]

My Savage 116 in 260 shot .363 out the box. I have had ER Shaw install barrels on 2 700s and one Mark X and they shoot 5/8" all day long.

[603Country]

My 220 has a Douglas barrel. It was super easy to find a great load. My 260 has a Brux barrel and also was easy to find a great load. My 223, on the other hand, has a Benchmark barrel. It took a lot of shooting, different bullets, and powders to find the good loads. The Douglas barrel shoots great hot or cold, and so does the Brux. The Benchmark walks when it gets hot. Every rifle is different.

From now on I will buy only cut rifled barrels like the Brux. That’s my plan.

[std7mag]

And your sticking to it? Lol

Every barrel is different.

[Nathan]

one barrel finishing guy (buys rifled blanks and threads and chambers them) had the audacity to say if it was 1 MOA that was all you can expect - he uses XCB barrels a lot

I would have a hard time giving that guy my money as most blanks have the potential to be finished into <0.5 moa barrels. The rifle they are put on has impact too....a lot of impact!

[RC20]

Yes he is a clown. Apache something out of Louisiana. He has some real fanboys on Savage site.

All sorts of excuses why barrels not delivered, doesn't answer until people go on Savage site, ad nausea.

Nothing like being a good old boy to attract flies.

[Unclenick]

The button-rifled Douglas barrels shoot because, unlike a lot of factory barrels, the blanks are stress-relieved before contouring, so they don't get the problem of the bore being wider where the contour is narrower in diameter. Hand-lapping also fixes that issue. Cut rifling doesn't make a lot of stress, to begin with, so it avoids the issue. A lot of custom barrels are cut-rifled in part because the end of WWII made a lot of cut rifling machines available on the surplus market. It is time-consuming, though, so you pay more for it. A button-rifled bore that has also been hand-lapped, like the Criterion barrels, also have the constrictions removed.

Some time back there was an article by someone who shared the cost of Dave Manson's recrowning toolset with a friend. Between them, they recrowned most of the rifles for members of their gun club. Something like 15 people, IIRC. Half of them had better accuracy afterward. That tells you the average gun maker's crowning practices are imperfect. Years ago, Harold Vaughn did experiments with crowns cut at different taper angles and found that as long as they were perfectly symmetrical they could shoot equally small groups. But often factory tooling is not maintaining perfect symmetry. So recrowning a barrel that refuses to shoot is one of my first steps. I lap them with a ball bearing or a large glass marble (M.L. McPherson's trick). As long as you cut the old crown off perfectly square first, as any 90° crown cutter I've seen will do, you can lap a perfectly symmetrical recess in about 10 minutes.

After that, if you've got bedding or inletting problems or your bolt lugs need lapping, you need to get that sorted out, too. Once you do, assuming the action design is good and your lock time is reasonable your springs not set, you are down to the barrel itself as to whether you can find handloads that tune it in or not. Sometimes asymmetrical stresses exist for one reason or another, and such barrel will drift as it heats. Then you have to get it stress-relieved. Cryogenic treatment can help a bit with that, but there is nothing to beat oven stress-relief. But the former is easier to do as the barrel doesn't have to come off and it doesn't affect most finishes. You may find it worth a try before going further.

[603Country]

Unclenick, that was very interesting. I had not known about the possibility of barrel contouring impacting bore diameter. When I had the Douglas barrel put on the 220, I remember that I had the option of an air gauged barrel for a bit more money. I suppose the air gauging would identify any barrels that had bore inconsistencies. I didn’t spend the extra money, but got a truly outstanding barrel anyway. Is the use of air gauging common among today’s barrel makers?

[RC20]

One barrel was reported to have been stamped that upset the stamp into the barrel chamber.

Shilen has a high match (or some such) that has a guaranteed accuracy of build (it may not shoot better)

Unclemick: What were the rifles accuracy on the crown work? I had seen the work done by the guy who hacked off lengths and mess-up up the crown and it had to be gross before he saw major accuracy affects.