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Old June 13, 2018, 08:43 AM   #76
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The ballistics part of the discussion was informative and interesting.
Where it should have stayed, but what debate is there when we use facts.
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Old June 13, 2018, 10:03 AM   #77
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I've come to the conclusion it's impossible to have a rational discussion about the 300 BO--the mere fact it works well in shorter barrels always ends up sucking the discussion down the "illegal brace" drain.
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Old June 13, 2018, 09:51 PM   #78
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That's easy:

The brace is designed to defeat SBR laws
The 300 AAC round works in a short barrel

So why wouldn't there be a conversation about these points?
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Old June 14, 2018, 12:38 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by stagpanther View Post
I've come to the conclusion it's impossible to have a rational discussion about the 300 BO--the mere fact it works well in shorter barrels always ends up sucking the discussion down the "illegal brace" drain.
Leave .300 out of it, it's just plain anything to do with an AR or AK pistol and the 3rd rail of gun forums has made contact and it's another thread hijacked.

I am never bothering with the pistol brace legality topic again. I would rather watch a snail run the Daytona 500.
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Old June 14, 2018, 06:32 AM   #80
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Leave .300 out of it, it's just plain anything to do with an AR or AK pistol and the 3rd rail of gun forums has made contact and it's another thread hijacked.

I am never bothering with the pistol brace legality topic again. I would rather watch a snail run the Daytona 500.
Amen to that.
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Old June 14, 2018, 06:58 AM   #81
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Twice in two days I've had people feel compelled to reply to my threads where one was closed because someone took it off track.

No one is forcing you to respond. I'm asking perfectly acceptable questions. Thank you for the information that addressed what I asked.
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Old June 14, 2018, 08:38 AM   #82
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I agree--you asked perfectly reasonable questions--but it's the inherent nature of discussing the 300BO that it descends into pistol configurations because it was originally designed as a short-barreled cartridge. That's one reason I tried to warn you at the very start of the thread the importance of avoiding veering off into the brace sturm und drang--it ALWAYS results in quasi arm-chair legal interpretations of grey-zone what-ifs--and the inevitable statement that the brace is somehow a circumvention of SBR licenses. That is completely false--unless you intend to adapt and use it as an SBR.

Think of it this way, it is relatively easy to make a standard AR fire control system dump an entire magazine as if it were a full-auto weapon. You either have to intentionally modify the trigger group to do so--or if you inadvertently have a system that is "out of tune" or used incorrectly; you correct it. If it happens accidentally--that does not mean you configured your weapon as a circumvention of class 3 automatic weapon laws; though you may run the risk of having to explain that to LE if you have the misfortune of them being there at the time this happens.

This is my AR pistol in 300BO. It is very compact and using common parts it barely weighs 5 lbs. Using my warm 110 TacTX handholds I can easily group 1.5" to 2" MOA with a reddot (using a front rest)--once in a while I can get it down to right around MOA if I'm lucky. My handloads arrive at 100 yds with plenty of velocity and energy--even out of this 7.5" barrel. The day this gets ruled illegal is the day all semi-automatic pistols do.



I handload ammo for dozens of different rifles and handguns; and IMO there is no other cartridge that does what the 300BO does within it's niche of high performance small capacity configuration and is also soft shooting in a compact platform. It is very easy to pinpoint opinions to the contrary as ones that are coming from people that almost certainly have never shot a 300BO pistol.
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Old June 14, 2018, 09:30 AM   #83
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I don’t think of a brace as a work around the SBR laws.

I think most people that have a brace installed has done so for purely cosmetic reasons. At first glance it looks like an SBR. I have a brace only because it was cheap.

I would say that if you cannot shoot an AR pistol without shouldering it, you probably should just stick to rifles...
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Old June 14, 2018, 09:41 AM   #84
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I would say that if you cannot shoot an AR pistol without shouldering it, you probably should just stick to rifles...
LOL--that sums it up better than all the other talk.
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Old June 17, 2018, 08:10 AM   #85
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Me personally own both several AR's in varied rifle configurations, and a 300BO in rifle. I'm not into the SBR's or pistol configs. They just don't fill any need within my collection. I never gave much though to 300BO until I bought a .30 cal suppressor. 300BO is the PERFECT caliber for suppressed subsonic loads. Just so happens the pistol length gas system is ideal for subsonic work. If your looking for longer 200+ yd precision the 300BO is not the best choice, if your looking for a short range hard hitting caliber, now 300BO becomes better suited. I'm more of a paper punching guy and if I didn't have the supressor I probably wouldn't have the want for 300BO. I do think for thumping steel gongs at 50 yds with a 300BO pistol sounds pretty cool. Everyone's different and that's the modular attraction to the versatile AR.
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Old June 20, 2018, 05:51 PM   #86
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I think the question is about whether to go with the .223/5.56 or .300 blackout in an AR pistol. The only question I have is what are you going to use it for? If you are going to use it for target shooting I would go with the .223/5.56 because the blackout is a little expensive & after the first box or two you won't be shooting it much.(unless you reload)
If you are going to use it for hunting I would tell you to go with the .300 blackout because of the many different types of hunting ammunition & the light recoil of that round.
But if you want it for both target & hunting I would tell you to look at the 7.62x39 AR pistol. The target ammo is cheap & you can buy some decent hunting ammo for it. It will have a little more recoil than the .300 blackout but for the cheaper price it is an easy tradeoff.
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Old June 20, 2018, 11:45 PM   #87
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I think the question is about whether to go with the .223/5.56 or .300 blackout in an AR pistol. The only question I have is what are you going to use it for? If you are going to use it for target shooting I would go with the .223/5.56 because the blackout is a little expensive & after the first box or two you won't be shooting it much.(unless you reload)
If you are going to use it for hunting I would tell you to go with the .300 blackout because of the many different types of hunting ammunition & the light recoil of that round.
But if you want it for both target & hunting I would tell you to look at the 7.62x39 AR pistol. The target ammo is cheap & you can buy some decent hunting ammo for it. It will have a little more recoil than the .300 blackout but for the cheaper price it is an easy tradeoff.
Or the question would be why are you hunting with an AR pistol anyway
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Old June 21, 2018, 12:10 AM   #88
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If you are going to use it for target shooting I would go with the .223/5.56 because the blackout is a little expensive & after the first box or two you won't be shooting it much.(unless you reload)
A box of .300 Blk subsonic ammo can be had for under $20.
The difference between my recent factory ammo subsonic load purchase and what I can reload in a similar fashion (with a different bullet), is less than $0.09. (Or 10%.)
That's not worth reloading.

Going to a different brand, a similar load can be obtained for $11.99 per box (20). I cannot handload the same type of load, with a similar bullet, for that price.

Six of one. Half a dozen of the other. Or two dozen for the price of one.

I don't see factory ammo being an issue for a non-reloader, if I, as a reloader, can't reload for less than factory.
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Old June 21, 2018, 05:18 PM   #89
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Or the question would be why are you hunting with an AR pistol anyway
I hunt with a AR pistol because the hunting regs allow pistol of that caliber but not rifles.
Yes I know it's screwed up but that's the rules.
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Old June 21, 2018, 05:21 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by FrankenMauser View Post
A box of .300 Blk subsonic ammo can be had for under $20.
The difference between my recent factory ammo subsonic load purchase and what I can reload in a similar fashion (with a different bullet), is less than $0.09. (Or 10%.)
That's not worth reloading.

Going to a different brand, a similar load can be obtained for $11.99 per box (20). I cannot handload the same type of load, with a similar bullet, for that price.

Six of one. Half a dozen of the other. Or two dozen for the price of one.

I don't see factory ammo being an issue for a non-reloader, if I, as a reloader, can't reload for less than factory.
Where are you finding ammo for that price?
I've been watching the ammo sites but haven't see anything that low.
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Old June 21, 2018, 06:10 PM   #91
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I hunt with a AR pistol because the hunting regs allow pistol of that caliber but not rifles.
Yes I know it's screwed up but that's the rules.
10-04 on that --where I hunt semi's with a barrel length over 8" must have no more than 5 cartridges--under that--unlimited. Good enough for me.
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Old June 22, 2018, 01:18 AM   #92
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Where are you finding ammo for that price?
I've been watching the ammo sites but haven't see anything that low.
S&B 200 gr.
It's listed at $11.99 per box (20) multiple places right now. (As low as $9.78 a few places.)
There are also multiple other loads available at $0.50 per round ($10 / box) if you buy a case at a time (200-250 rounds).

And if you're willing to go with "remanufactured", you can get 208 gr A-Max loads for $0.38 apiece. I can't even buy the frappin' bullets that cheap, unless they're blems/seconds!

It doesn't cover everything, but Ammoseek.com will show you a good variety of pricing.

For the record: I won't touch S&B ammo. In my opinion, it's low quality for factory ammo. As a reloader, I think their brass is half a step up from garbage. I won't touch it. But, for anyone else (since the masses don't seem to care), it's a cheap alternative...
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Old June 22, 2018, 11:25 AM   #93
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Or the question would be why are you hunting with an AR pistol anyway
Why not? With supersonics it is close ballistically to a 30-30 or 7.62X39 fired from a rifle. Especially downrange where the higher BC comes into play.
My 300 pistol shoots MOA.
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Old June 22, 2018, 04:36 PM   #94
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10-04 on that --where I hunt semi's with a barrel length over 8" must have no more than 5 cartridges--under that--unlimited. Good enough for me.
Yes we are limited to 10 rounds but in a deer hunting situation why in the world would I need 10 rounds. One maybe two but never 10.
I can hold all those 10 rounds in a hard ball sized group at 100yds with only a 8.5" barrel.
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Old June 22, 2018, 05:21 PM   #95
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One maybe two but never 10.
I have lived places with high daily bag limits. Three shots, three deer and the hunting season is over for me in three seconds (I am a meat hunter). Get in a hog hunting situation and ten might not be enough.
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Old June 22, 2018, 10:32 PM   #96
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Yes we are limited to 10 rounds but in a deer hunting situation why in the world would I need 10 rounds. One maybe two but never 10.
When I lived in Florida, the daily bag limit was eight -- per person.
When I was a kid, Idaho had no "party hunting" laws and allowed up to four deer per hunter. My grandfather used to go out and kill everything he could out of an entire herd, to fill the family's tags. (The average year had between 22 and 32 tags available to be filled, depending upon finances.)

Never say never...
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Old June 22, 2018, 11:25 PM   #97
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Yes we are limited to 10 rounds but in a deer hunting situation why in the world would I need 10 rounds. One maybe two but never 10.
I can hold all those 10 rounds in a hard ball sized group at 100yds with only a 8.5" barrel.
I like to shoot my initials into a deer--that way if it runs off it makes it easier for me to claim the tag later on when I find it.
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Old June 23, 2018, 07:22 AM   #98
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Yes, I the original poster derailed the conversation by asking about braces on a 300aac pistol...
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Old June 25, 2018, 06:20 AM   #99
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Yes we are limited to 10 rounds but in a deer hunting situation why in the world would I need 10 rounds. One maybe two but never 10.
I can hold all those 10 rounds in a hard ball sized group at 100yds with only a 8.5" barrel.
In some States you deal with feral hogs. I have heard some people expect hunters to shoot any hogs they see even when deer hunting. 10 shots at a group of hogs is better than 5.
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Old June 25, 2018, 11:16 AM   #100
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It is open season with no bag limit on hogs in my state 24/7/365.
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