Real Black Powder Under Triple 7

[bn12gg]

I ran into an older guy (older than me at least) last week who has loaded his muzzleloader with real black powder as a primer under Triple 7. He uses real black in the pan. I believe he was shooting a .50 caliber muzzleloader. I said to him that I'd heard of this but never tried it myself -- I've been using real BP 3f under the ball and in the pan -- all goes well. He indicated that this method was essentially that used on big naval guns on ships. ??

Anyone have success priming Triple 7 with real black powder in flintlock muzzleloaders.

.02

David

[Pahoo]

Anyone have success priming Triple 7 with real black powder in flintlock muzzleloaders.

This is an acceptable procedure and not really neccessary. However, as long as it's safe, I would never question anyone's loading technique. ...

He indicated that this method was essentially that used on big navel guns on ships. ??

That might be debated and you woud have to ask a Gunner'sMate. As in most if not all cases, we did use a saperate priming method. Our "guns" only went up to 5". ....

Be Safe !!!

[B.L.E.]

I saw a new shooter using 777 in his flintlock and there was a long ignition delay after the pan flash, he thought it was normal. I gave him some real black powder and told him to try it. It didn't take him long to get some real black powder of his own after trying it.

The makers of Pyrodex suggested a 10 grain charge of real bp down barrel before putting in the main charge of Pyrodex when using it in a flintlock.

I also have read of a small bag of black powder igniter charge being used in 16 inch naval guns. I think it was 5 kg bag of black powder used to ignite the 600 pounds of smokeless main charge.

[Rifleman1776]

You mentioned a "pan". Meaning he was shooting a flintlock. A small charge of real bp under the main fake powder charge is acceptable. And it is (probably) needed to ignite the fake stuff.

[bn12gg]

Thanks for the responses. Yes, my OP referenced a flintlock -- in my case a 45 caliber Lancaster. I am new to this flintlock with my other muzzleloader being one I've shot for approx 4 years -- it's a Jonathon Browning Mountain Hawken (percussion in .50). I've always used Triple 7 in it. I like to learn as much as possible and thought when the old guy spoke about priming Triple 7 with real black powder in the flintlock, that, heck I might give it a try.

It sort of makes sense to me that there would be a lag time in a flintlock using 3/4f real BP in the pan with 100% Triple 7 under the ball. Would 10 grains of real BP under the Triple 7 eliminate the lag time in ignition?

Curious. Thanks David

[B.L.E.]

Would 10 grains of real BP under the Triple 7 eliminate the lag time in ignition?

Yes. Even though the pan powder lights the 777 right away, it still has to burn up to its fast burn rate pressure and that takes a moment.
Percussion caps not only ignite the charge but also get the initial chamber pressure up to 777's fast burning rate pressure. So does that booster charge of black powder.

Black powder's burn rate is nearly independent of chamber pressure so it goes kaboom as soon as it's ignited.


Watch the video link in this thread to see how fast a flintlock can go off.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=524712

[bn12gg]

BLE-- Thanks. The shot in the video is, well, instantaneous.

David