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July 16, 2010, 09:22 AM | #76 |
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You pull it out to use it.
Interesting thread. I was taught that you only bring a gun into a situation if you are going to use it. Never to show it, never to scare someone but only to use it. Using it means fire the gun. You don't have to fire the gun every single time you draw your handgun but every time I draw the sole intention is to immediately stop a threat. If the situation then changes, act accordingly. You will only have a spit second to react so if you happen to shoot someone, the facts have to be clear that you reasonably believed your life or the life of another was in danger and that's why there is someone lying on the floor dead due to lead poisoning.
P.S. Someone started a thread about why we post. I do because of threads like this one. |
July 16, 2010, 10:07 AM | #77 | ||
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That's all this thread is about: just because you've appropriately drawn your gun doesn't mean that you will fire it. As Glenn has pointed out, a gun is fired in only about 5% of successful defensive gun uses. And in posts 66 (link) and 70 we see some real life examples of guns being properly drawn, but not ultimately fired. Quote:
The fact is that there is always the possibility that one will face a situation in which it is reasonably necessary to draw his gun for self defense or the defense of an innocent, but it will not then be necessary to fire it. As Glenn has pointed out, in posts 24 and 56, a gun is fired in only about 5% of successful defensive gun uses. And in posts 66 (link) and 70 we see some real life examples of guns being properly drawn, but not ultimately fired. |
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July 16, 2010, 10:11 AM | #78 | ||||
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One other thing: do not assume that the assailant will die, and expect his testimony to enter into investigations, a charging decision, and perhaps, trial. |
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July 18, 2010, 11:59 AM | #79 | |||
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Brandishing and Aggravated Assault with a firearm goes out the window in this scenario despite the distance and (potentially temporary) lack of opportunity. If you say you are going to kill me with this disassembled rifle then proceed to assemble, load, and aim this rifle, at what point is one justified in drawing ones firearm. Of course this is if retreat and or escape is not possible. According to the logic above opportunity isn't present until the rifle is loaded and charged. Quote:
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July 18, 2010, 03:44 PM | #80 |
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If I can get away with drawing my firearm and not using lethal force to defend myself or another.. I would choose that route any day.
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July 18, 2010, 05:21 PM | #81 | ||
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July 18, 2010, 05:34 PM | #82 | |
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The next says you don't have to fire it every time you draw. Sometimes the threat IS stopped when you draw. Sometimes you have to shoot. OF COURSE the intention is to immediately stop a threat. Lots of folks take the position that they aren't going to draw unless they're going to shoot. Guess they'll be shooting Bubba down while he's screaming "DON'T SHOOT!" with his hands in the air in front of witnesses, or while he's hot footing it in the other direction the instant he sees you go for a weapon. Common sense should prefail over what someone heard or read somewhere. EVERYONE who carries a gun should know that the situation can change by the time you clear leather. Anyone who would teach someone they have to shoot everytime they draw is incompetent, and so is someone who teaches that just drawing the gun will always solve the problem. Yes, I do feel better now. Sorry to vent, but sometimes enough is enough--probably the dang Red Bull again. Last edited by Nnobby45; July 18, 2010 at 05:41 PM. |
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July 18, 2010, 05:36 PM | #83 |
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I agree with the OP also. I also love what Glen said, was kinda funny. Police draw their weapons all the time, many have done it over their entire career without ever fireing a shot. If your carrying a cw period you should be willing to use it if a situation dictates. If you have no intention of using the weapon and are just carrying it as a deturent then ya thats a mistake.
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July 18, 2010, 06:23 PM | #84 |
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I was taught and trained to not bring a firearm into the situation unless I was willing to use it if need be. That does not mean if I take it out then someone is getting filled with lead. Simply put I will not pull it out unless I am in a situation that calls for the use of deadly force. If the threat ceases without me having to shoot then it worked. I know not to just pull out a weapon if I am not going to use because if the threat calls that bluff thing will get deadly fast.
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July 18, 2010, 07:09 PM | #85 | |
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Last edited by Rastus; July 18, 2010 at 07:14 PM. |
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July 18, 2010, 10:02 PM | #86 | ||
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Of course. That would be murder 1 but that's not the point. You don't draw to scare the would be attacker or intimidate a bully. When you draw your gun unnecessarily because there was no immediate threat, you escalate the situation. So, you only draw when there is a threat to you or a 3rd person. And you draw to shoot, not intimidate. Now, if the situation manages to change in the second or two you draw you have to make that decision to stop because the threat was stoped. if you shoot you commit a crime. Quote:
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July 18, 2010, 11:21 PM | #87 |
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This is a stupid debate over nit-picking parsing.
1. You draw because you feel the need that you might have to shoot as the situation meets the need for and criteria to use deadly force. 2. You don't have to shoot. 3 You can challenge someone to see if that stops the threat that did meet the criteria for using deadly force. That depends on the lay of land. So that's it. Stop playing word games and having a personality contest.
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July 19, 2010, 12:07 AM | #88 | |
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Sorry you think my attack was personal. It wasn't. It was aimed at a way of thinking that, as I mentioned, is too wide spread. Lastly: I personally think you'd do fine in the Special Olylmpics--if you trained hard. |
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July 19, 2010, 06:08 AM | #89 | |||
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If I don't "intimidate" them if I wait until all three criteria are met before pulling I just did a disservice to myself tactically, the kids I just shot, their families, my brother in law, etc. Pulling equals being willing to use it thats it. Justification for pulling must be determined at that moment. Sitting here I can tell you without a sliver of doubt that had you been on that basketball court with 10-15 teen aged kids threatening to stomp you and closing the distance you would understand that there are times when pulling is both justified and multi intentioned. |
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July 19, 2010, 07:54 AM | #90 | |||||
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http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/wea...f_defense.html A relevant excerpt: Quote:
http://www.azdps.gov/Services/Concea..._ccw_legal.pdf Here's a relevant excerpt: Quote:
Also, very few states provide resources such as these from Arizona and Florida. It is not a good idea to try to interpret the state code for oneself. So, unless you have reason to know otherwise, it is no doubt best to go by this from Glenn: Quote:
Last edited by OldMarksman; July 19, 2010 at 10:46 AM. Reason: Rephrase last sentence |
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July 19, 2010, 11:13 AM | #91 | |
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Oldmarksman, I had 10-15 teens approaching me while making threats of violence. Their numbers certainly gave them the ability to cause me great bodily harm and death. Their verbal threats and posturing certainly gave them the intent to do the same. The only thing lacking because of the distance remaining for them to finish covering was opportunity. I made the decision that should I not be able to retreat safely I was going to use my firearm to stop the threat. When I displayed my firearm it was in the hope that the sight of it would stop the advance and thus end the encounter. I could have waited perhaps a few seconds longer to reach that danger zone in which I would be lucky to get my firearm into action had they chosen to turn a walk into a bum rush. Then I would have eliminated any advantage I had at the moment as well as doomed them to a much greater risk of being shot.
I was totally justified in pulling my firearm according to FLA law. I absolutely hoped that it would scare them into compliance. I was also preparing to use it should they continue. I posted this to respond to this...... Quote:
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July 19, 2010, 11:20 AM | #92 | |
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July 19, 2010, 11:34 AM | #93 |
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Like I said, we are word playing and the concept is clear. I explained it.
You don't have to shoot when you draw it. That's all. Bye Bye Closed.
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