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Old September 12, 2016, 10:37 PM   #1
Photon Guy
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BB and pellet guns

Some people like to save money by training with the .22 round which is much less expensive than most other rounds. However, I was thinking about saving even more money by training with BB and pellet guns. Of course a training session at the range with live ammo from time to time as well but for lots of the training to use BB and pellet guns, could be a real money saver.
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Old September 12, 2016, 10:50 PM   #2
cslinger
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What kind of "training" ?

Marksmanship?
Tactical drills?
Handling?
Force on force?
Just easier plinking?

The answer really dictates what you want to buy. From action type to price range etc.

Airsoft replicas are fantastic for handling, tactical and holster drills and came be great force on force. They suck for target shooting generally.

A higher end pneumatic or spring or PCP pellet rifle is great for marksmanship and trigger control, follow throw and discipline but sucks for any kind of practical defensive training if that's what your after.

Another option is a laser training cartridge or gun.
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Old September 13, 2016, 12:03 AM   #3
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Quote:
What kind of "training" ?

Marksmanship?
Tactical drills?
Handling?
Force on force?
Just easier plinking?

The answer really dictates what you want to buy. From action type to price range etc.

Airsoft replicas are fantastic for handling, tactical and holster drills and came be great force on force. They suck for target shooting generally.

A higher end pneumatic or spring or PCP pellet rifle is great for marksmanship and trigger control, follow throw and discipline but sucks for any kind of practical defensive training if that's what your after.

Another option is a laser training cartridge or gun.
Mostly just target shooting so marksmanship and plinking. Right now I've got a CO2 powered semi automatic pellet rifle that I use for target practice with this special BB and pellet target I've got. Another thing about BB and pellet guns is they can be used indoors without having to have one of those specially designed indoor shooting ranges.
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Old September 13, 2016, 01:41 AM   #4
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Pellet guns are really fun. They can teach marksmanship very nicely, but won't mimic the normal noise and recoil of a real gun.
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Old September 13, 2016, 11:00 AM   #5
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Pellet guns are really fun. They can teach marksmanship very nicely, but won't mimic the normal noise and recoil of a real gun.
That can be a good thing. With recoil all too often a shooter will anticipate it and tense up which will mess up the shot. When you get used to shooting with no recoil, from my experience, it helps with the anticipation problem when you do shoot live rounds. That's why dry practice is really good for training and why if you're having a bad day at the range that doing some dry practice can help. When you shoot a gun that doesn't recoil, such as an empty gun or a pellet or BB gun, you get used to shooting with no recoil and so when you do shoot live rounds you will shoot the same way that you shoot when there is no recoil which is really how you do want to shoot when you do use live rounds. You want the recoil to surprise you and so you don't want to know exactly when the gun will fire while you're squeezing the trigger. Therefore the no recoil that you get when you use a pellet gun is, in my opinion, a great advantage. Using a pellet gun is just like dry practice but you get to see where your shots land on a target.
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Old September 13, 2016, 01:13 PM   #6
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Some air guns do have recoil.
Spring powered rifles have plenty of it.
Blowback pistols can have about the same as a .22.
Nothing like a centerfire pistol, but enough for meaningful practice.
The most accurate one I have that also has the most recoil is the Umarex replica of the Beretta PX4:
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Berett...ellet_gun/1308
Be sure to watch the video on the same page.
At the ten meter maximum distance in our garage, it easily replaces . 22 rimfire in most every way.
There's plenty of other choices these days, too.
It's the golden age of airguns.
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Old September 13, 2016, 03:04 PM   #7
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With a high round count...you'll eventually have to replace the spring on a piston rifle, due to a reduction in velocity. I heard that CO2 rifles suffer a reduction in velocity due to cold temperatures. My RWS Diana Model 54 springer is based on a recoilless system.
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Old September 14, 2016, 04:27 PM   #8
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BB and Pellet Guns

I have a Sheridan Silver Streak, in .20. Bought sometime in the Seventies.
Eight pumps with the Sheridan Hunting Pellet, no longer available, it woill shoot through a in pine board, or 1/2 plywood and maybe more.
Hunted squirrels with it but hasbroom handle wood. only been shot a few times the last 30 years.
Last time I had it out it still had the air I pumped into it when I put it away one pump as reccomended.
Only 800+ fps but the .20 pellet is heavier by good margin that .177.
Wood had dried out somewhat and am considering refinishing it. Plain walnut but still not broom handle wood.
I keep an eye out for old Daisys and others at "Antique" shops but what I find are pieces of junk put together from others.
I want one that cocks by pulling the shotgun like handle baack all the way to receiver.
Spring is a little stronger and more velocity.
Cousin put a shotgun recoil spring, possible Browning auto 5 in one he had and accidentally put a bb into his ear lobe, in the fifties. It is still there.
It really spit the bb out.
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Old September 14, 2016, 04:28 PM   #9
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BB and Pellet Guns

I have a Sheridan Silver Streak, in .20. Bought sometime in the Seventies.
Eight pumps with the Sheridan Hunting Pellet, no longer available, it woill shoot through a in pine board, or 1/2 plywood and maybe more.
Hunted squirrels with it but hasbroom handle wood. only been shot a few times the last 30 years.
Last time I had it out it still had the air I pumped into it when I put it away one pump as reccomended.
Only 800+ fps but the .20 pellet is heavier by good margin that .177.
Wood had dried out somewhat and am considering refinishing it. Plain walnut but still not broom handle wood.
I keep an eye out for old Daisys and others at "Antique" shops but what I find are pieces of junk put together from others.
I want one that cocks by pulling the shotgun like handle baack all the way to receiver.
Spring is a little stronger and more velocity.
Cousin put a shotgun recoil spring, possible Browning auto 5 in one he had and accidentally put a lead bb into his ear lobe, in the fifties. It is still there.
It really spit the bb out.
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Old September 15, 2016, 12:58 PM   #10
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"...a pellet gun is just like dry practice..." Yep. Same principles involving breathing, sight picture and trigger control, but they are not a substitute for live rounds.
CO2 stuff tends to lose power as the cylinder is depleted.
The golden age of airguns was in 14th Century Sweden. Air powered rifles were successfully used as part of the defence of a castle under siege there. snicker. Still a lot more choice than there used to be.
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Old September 15, 2016, 02:43 PM   #11
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Austrian snipers used air rifles with good effect against Napoleon's army.
Lewis and Clark carried them during their cross country exploration.
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Old September 15, 2016, 08:53 PM   #12
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I really enjoy shooting handguns, but at times the weather or schedule does not allow me enough time to do this as much as I would like, so I bought a Crosman "pump" pellet pistol. It is in .177 caliber, and is very accurate up to about 15 yards, and is quiet enough that I can slip in the garage and do some plinking. I have actually taken some pest with it at about 7 - 10 yards too.

It is a handy tool to have around.
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Old September 16, 2016, 01:31 PM   #13
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Yep. Same principles involving breathing, sight picture and trigger control, but they are not a substitute for live rounds.
That's why you should head down to the range and train with live rounds every so often if you want to be good. But if you spend a good amount of your training with pellets than you don't have to break the bank so much on ammo. And there are some other benefits.


Quote:
CO2 stuff tends to lose power as the cylinder is depleted.
That's when you replace the cylinder.
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Old September 16, 2016, 08:12 PM   #14
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When I'm stressed out at home, I'll take my son's Red Ryder bb gun out in the back yard to plink and target shoot. I live in a housing plan where even a 22 is out of the question, but I like to target shoot. It's probably one of the least powerful bb guns out there, but I have fun with rapid target acquisition. I think they are great for practicing good form, breathing, and targeting.
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Old September 19, 2016, 05:12 AM   #15
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Air

Personally..I had my best seasons shooting Bullseye matches after spending the winter shooting air pistol postal matches. There was an obvious transfer of skills from the .177 CO2 gun to the 1911.....slow fire scores went up as did sustained fire scores.
Shotgunning.....I practiced "point" shooting with a somewhat modified Red Ryder BB gun. I ground off the front sight, removed the factory stock/made a simple pine stock of the correct LOP for me and added weights (taped to the barrel and the stock) to bring the weight up to close to seven pounds.
Walking in the woods, I practiced mounting and shooting (both eyes open) at any object that captured my attention.
In the yard, golf balls made suitable targets.
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Old September 19, 2016, 09:55 AM   #16
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Anyone interested in a 1911 practice gun?
If so, take a look at this airsoft version:
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Colt_1...ull_Metal/2537
Everything works on it just like the real thing.
And it's plenty accurate enough for up to ten yards or so.
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Old September 24, 2016, 08:58 AM   #17
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They can teach marksmanship very nicely, but won't mimic the normal noise and recoil of a real gun.
Yeah, sometimes they make more noise than a "real" gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srXMYpYFZ8c

And they can shoot pretty good too around 1 3/8" @ 100 yards with mine.

Good ones are not cheap to buy and only cost effective if you shoot them a lot because they are cheap to feed.
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Old September 25, 2016, 05:02 PM   #18
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However, I was thinking about saving even more money by training with BB and pellet guns. Of course a training session at the range with live ammo from time to time as well but for lots of the training to use BB and pellet guns, could be a real money saver.
It is, if you are training for accuracy.

Training for speed, handling, or other tactical considerations you are better off with airsoft. But for accuracy, pellet rifles and pistols are hands down the best way to become a more accurate shooter without breaking the bank on ammo.

A CMP refurbed Daisy 853 will set you back just over 100 dollars, and a carton of Crosman pellets about 16 bucks. That's 1250 actual trigger pulls for less than a 130 dollars (not including targets or other consumables). A decent break barrel air pistol like an IZH-53M new is less than 60 bucks.

So if you want to be a more accurate shooter, air guns are awesome and I can't recommend them highly enough. But for speed, and tactical handling, you'll need a different training option.

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Old September 26, 2016, 01:39 PM   #19
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Training for speed, handling, or other tactical considerations you are better off with airsoft.
So why would airsoft beat out pellets and metal bbs for those things?
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Old September 27, 2016, 11:40 AM   #20
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Airsoft offers a huge selection of surprisingly realistic guns modeled after firearms.
Many are licensed as near duplicates of the real thing.
However, there are pellet version, too, that offer the best of both worlds - accuracy and realism.
And some bb models can also be quite accurate, too.
The best useful practice is to get one that is most like the firearms you have.
There's plenty of video reviews on the web, from youtube and the major sellers web sites.
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Old September 30, 2016, 07:01 PM   #21
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So why would airsoft beat out pellets and metal bbs for those things?
Airsoft replicas are available for a wider variety of guns, and Airsoft also gives you a lot more leeway for practice, including indoors and even force-on-force with some goggles and possibly ear protection (not for noise, but to keep from getting a pellet in the ear canal). With a BB gun, you still have to be careful about safe directions downrange, and can't do FoF.
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Old October 1, 2016, 04:58 AM   #22
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So why would airsoft beat out pellets and metal bbs for those things?
Two really good answers above, but I'll add some.

1, you can do actual force on force training safely with airsoft. Even a low velocity pellet rifle/pistol is well into the "unsafe" category no matter how stupid we were with the "two pump limit" with BB gun wars as kids...
2, Airsoft replicas are often "functionally identical" or "pretty darn close" in terms of magazines and semi-auto fire. BB/Pellet guns even if visually the same, generally don't have magazine similarities.
3, Pellet rifle and pistol triggers are generally "really good" and much lighter and crisper than centerfire or rimfire firearms, where Airsoft triggers do a better job replicating the feel of a firearm trigger. This is a generality, because I haven't handled every firearm and air rifle/pistol out there, so I'm positive that there are exceptions to this.

I hope this is helpful, and I still recommend air rifles and pistols to people who want to be more accurate shooters.

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Old October 3, 2016, 08:20 AM   #23
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If you're going to opt for a BB gun, - NEVER shoot at steel plates, etc. A steel BB will bouce back from a perpindicular steel plate with almost the same velocity it left the muzzle....just saying.
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Old October 3, 2016, 08:54 AM   #24
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^^^
So will airsoft bbs.
With the right conditions, so can lead pellets sometimes.
Airguns are still guns and caution and eye protection are still needed.
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