The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 27, 2001, 10:21 PM   #1
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: October 14, 1998
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,546
Return to Castle Wolfenstein

I just got a new CD "Return to Castle Wolfenstein".
I've played with it for about an hour... uh... and I have some opinions.

1st off RTCW is the remake of Castle Wolfenstein, the 1st ever of the genre of games called "First Person Shooters" meaning the game is set in the 1st Person perspective. CW started it all, Doom, Rise of the Triad, Doom 2, Quake, Unreal, MDK, Blood, Sin, and so many others. Being the remake of what is in the gaming world, a legend, it has a lot to live up to. Expectation set to HIGH.

2nd it is apparent that the people making a game that is so based around weapons, would want to know something about the weapons. In this game it is evident that the game makers do not know ANYTHING about firearms. This is too bad because with a little effort and by working with a few guys that KNOW GUNS... they could really make a cool & realistic game.

3rd... the map makers need to spend at least a week in a real dang castle. These maps are just totally lame. They put a lot of effort into creating texture maps and everything... but this is the work of someone that is just making it up along the way. I dont care if it is not an accurate depiction of a real castle... I would just like to have it be something similar... you know what I mean?

4th... This game was due out Last Winter. It just came out now? Why now? Why the delay? To me it feels like it was rushed out so they could just go ahead and "Cash Out" even if it is really an unfinished product.

They have no story or real plot... they are cartoonish with important details and really detailed with the garish unimportant stuff.
Plus: Graphics and Sound
Minus: Plot, realism, maps.

Now, where this game will come into it's own is in multiplayer lan parties. The multiplayer maps are nothing special - but with the great graphics and sounds - you will have a kick butt time slaughtering your friends over and over again over a fast ethernet connection.

I'll rate it a 7.

Better options are: Operation Flashpoint, Max Payne, Rogue Spear: BLACK THORN. Buy Flashpoint or Payne... wait on RTCW to come down in price.
__________________
MAD OGRE
George Hill is offline  
Old November 27, 2001, 10:27 PM   #2
Zundfolge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2001
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 1,749
One plus for RTCW Flamethrower


I guess I've been too spoiled by Infiltration... I can't hardly play those games with floating crosshairs any more (I keep trying to aim the weapon with the iron sights)
Zundfolge is offline  
Old November 27, 2001, 10:51 PM   #3
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: October 14, 1998
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,546
I hear ya... OFP has ruined all other games for me...
__________________
MAD OGRE
George Hill is offline  
Old November 27, 2001, 11:52 PM   #4
Destructo6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 1999
Location: Nogales, AZ USA
Posts: 4,003
Actually, it's a continuation of the Castle Wolfenstein series started on the Apple II back in about 1981. Not a lot of realism, but a lot of good, stressful, gameplay. You never knew when you'd walk into a room full of SS guys or trip an alarm.

I haven't been able to locate RTCW yet, since most local places are sold out and I don't want to scour the city with my gimpy leg. I was, however, able to play the multiplayer test version and found it to be a lot of fun, despite the lag.

The flamethrower and panzerfaust are my favorite weaons.

BTW what are the minimum and suggested system requirements?
Destructo6 is offline  
Old November 28, 2001, 12:27 AM   #5
Cosmoline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2000
Posts: 1,080
This is how old I am--I remember playing the ORIGINAL TWO-D Castle Wolfenstein on an ancient Apple II! The first Wolfenstein 3-D came out several years after this, IIRC, and was the first of its kind. It was one of the few games to really blow me away when I first saw it. Of course, it's been surpassed in 3-D technology, but the music was cool, and they did a lot with the limited graphics.

Re firearms--Most of these games have a lot of unrealistic gun play. Aside from the fact that the MC can be shot dozens of times and still run around, the firearms are either way too potent or not nearly powerful enough. In the "realistic" Half-Life series they seem to think a crossbow is as deadly at long range as a .308 sniper rifle, a .357 magnum is more powerful than a 12 ga., and that a pump-action shotgun has TWO BARRELS! They also seem to think the MC can shoot with pinpoint accuracy at 200 yards with a Glock, but can't hit the broad side of a barn with a carbine. The latest silliness came with "Blue Shift," where a .50 BMG machine gun fired what appeared to be 9mm ammo! That one really made me mad. Apparently, few if any of these designers has ever shot a gun. Sadly most players will never know the difference.
Cosmoline is offline  
Old November 28, 2001, 09:35 AM   #6
Hard_Case
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2001
Location: Caliban East
Posts: 225
Quote:
Being the remake of what is in the gaming world, a legend, it has a lot to live up to. Expectation set to HIGH.
Granted. Then again, I was still hoping the brownshirts would be screaming 'Mein Leben!' when they died, but that's just me.

Quote:
2nd it is apparent that the people making a game that is so based around weapons, would want to know something about the weapons. In this game it is evident that the game makers do not know ANYTHING about firearms. This is too bad because with a little effort and by working with a few guys that KNOW GUNS... they could really make a cool & realistic game.
Can I ask one stupid question? You do realize that you're bitching about realism in a game that deals with the Nazi's trying to resurrect evil demon monster creatures and other 'otherworldly' terrors? I'm not really sure where you got an expectation about realism in these games.I mean, would Doom, or Unreal, lost points for realism, because they use weapons that don't exist?

You might need to consider that you might not be the target audience for this game. Either that or somewhere along the line something got misinterpreted. Return was never intended to be a Ghost Recon/Flashpoint style game. Some people (yes, this is a rant...not directed at anyone in particular, but it stems from the whole realism thing) like games where one shot doesn't drop you dead, and where you can actually take on a superior force and win. Some of us like to at least simulate having Chow Yun Fat skills. Don't mean to be flying off the handle, but some people aren't die-hard tacticians. Some people just want to control one guy and not squads of soldiers. Some people just aren't that good at games like OFP or Rogue Spear.

Quote:
3rd... the map makers need to spend at least a week in a real dang castle. These maps are just totally lame. They put a lot of effort into creating texture maps and everything... but this is the work of someone that is just making it up along the way. I dont care if it is not an accurate depiction of a real castle... I would just like to have it be something similar... you know what I mean?
I have to say I did like a lot of the maps in the game so far, but the opening castle maps could have been better.

Quote:
4th... This game was due out Last Winter. It just came out now? Why now? Why the delay? To me it feels like it was rushed out so they could just go ahead and "Cash Out" even if it is really an unfinished product.
I'm guessing you do not have experience working in the software industry.

1) Scheduling is sometimes a VERY difficult thing to get a handle on. Something you expect to take three to five weeks can EASILY take three to five months. Things like that happen, and a game being released on time in the game industry is a rather rare thing. Heck, anyone remember Strike Commander, or Mechwarrior 2? Remember, this is not console gaming, where you're just releasing it on one system. Which leads to point 2.
2) Testing. This game has to be tested on dozens of platforms with hundreds of different hardware configs. That, even when scripted, takes a lot of time. Who knows when one bug will pop up, and how long it will take to fix.
3) Multiplayer. Do you have any idea just how difficult it is to make and EFFECTIVE multiplayer interface. One that will work smoothly on a PIII 500 on a 28.8k as well as an AMD 1.4ghz on a T1. Not easy in the least, even if you reuse code from other engines.

I've been playing Return since it came out, and it definitely doesn't have the feel of a 'rushed' product. I'm curious as to what makes you say that?

Quote:
Better options are: Operation Flashpoint, Max Payne, Rogue Spear: BLACK THORN. Buy Flashpoint or Payne... wait on RTCW to come down in price.
Okay, I am now officially lost. You knock Return for it's lack of realism, then recommend Max Payne? Don't get me wrong, it's one of my all time favorite games....but it was as realistic as a John Woo film. I mean, you strap an AR, bolt action rifle, grenade launcher, jackhammer, and a couple of thousand rounds of ammo....wanna try some bullet time views? And there was no BDC adjustment option for the sniper rifle scope!
Hard_Case is offline  
Old November 28, 2001, 09:40 AM   #7
Hard_Case
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2001
Location: Caliban East
Posts: 225
Quote:
Re firearms--Most of these games have a lot of unrealistic gun play. Aside from the fact that the MC can be shot dozens of times and still run around, the firearms are either way too potent or not nearly powerful enough. In the "realistic" Half-Life series they seem to think a crossbow is as deadly at long range as a .308 sniper rifle, a .357 magnum is more powerful than a 12 ga., and that a pump-action shotgun has TWO BARRELS! They also seem to think the MC can shoot with pinpoint accuracy at 200 yards with a Glock, but can't hit the broad side of a barn with a carbine. The latest silliness came with "Blue Shift," where a .50 BMG machine gun fired what appeared to be 9mm ammo! That one really made me mad. Apparently, few if any of these designers has ever shot a gun. Sadly most players will never know the difference.
Oh, yeah mean like Ghost Recon, where either an M24 SWS has the effective range of an AK-47, or the AK-47 is the God Gun of the Ages?

Um...as I understood in playing it, the crossbow in Half-Life used bolts that contained poison. Makes it a bit different. And I'd ask a similar question from the one about Return...you realize that you're bitching about realism in a game where evil creatures and denizens from out of nightmares are released into this world via interdemensional travels? Once again, maybe you might not be the intended audience for that game....
Hard_Case is offline  
Old November 28, 2001, 09:58 AM   #8
Woodie
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2001
Posts: 4
Yeap,

I love the game but the one thing they missed was a "Mein Leben"!!!

-Woodie
Woodie is offline  
Old November 28, 2001, 11:00 AM   #9
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: October 14, 1998
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,546
Max Payne isn't any more "realistic" really, but it is a better game in that it is original, it has a story, the gun play is actually interesting, the problem solving doesnt leave you running all around the map you just cleared for twice as long as it took to clear it, looking for a switch. It is in a nut shell, simply a better game. These quake-like FPS games are just pretty much tired and just having cool graphics doesnt cut it anymore. People who actually spend the cash for these games are needing MORE out of the game than just eye candy... at least I do. Wolfenstein HAD the potential to be another great game... but it seems like they rushed out an unfinished product. The redeaming feature that the Wolfenstein has is that it is a very good Multiplayer platform. UT and QIII both just did away with the story part and just said "Have At It"... there is an honesty there that I appreciated. RTCW? They TRIED to give it a story, but fell flat.
The gun selections are typical... Luger, MP-40... nothing interesting. Yeah - I know its supposed to be in the WWII era - but they could have at least done something interesting. Like a Grease Gun. The Flamethrower is cool - but thats it. Notice how the mounted machineguns never run out of ammo? That is lame.
__________________
MAD OGRE
George Hill is offline  
Old November 28, 2001, 11:56 AM   #10
BigG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,334
Mein leben!

I still think the plasma rifle in Doom rocks!
BigG is offline  
Old November 28, 2001, 12:23 PM   #11
Skorzeny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 1999
Posts: 1,938
If you want realism, try the new Rainbow Six type game called Ghost Recon. You can download the playable demo at ubisoft's website.

Similar to Rainbow Six (same developer), only more detailed and no more rescues (firefights in the open field and other terrain)!

Skorzeny
Skorzeny is offline  
Old November 28, 2001, 01:05 PM   #12
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: October 14, 1998
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,546
One thing I REALLY like about RTCW is that it is SCARY.
Try playing it late at night when the house is dark and quiet and you have the volume up high.
You will be FREAKED.

Ghost Recon. Here is what I think about Ghost Recon: I HATE IT.
Why? Because all they did was to take ROGUE SPEAR and make it pretty. They didn't put in ANY EFFORT to make it actually BETTER. They didn't fix anything at all accept a few clipping glitches. The weapons are no more realistic and they didn't fix the recticle bloom problem that the engine has with machine guns. You see, with RS and GR if you let loose with a long burst - in just a moment you are shooting EVERYWHERE accept where you want the rounds to go. Now, in real life - guns like the M-60 and the M-249 SAW are very easy to shoot... and to shoot quite well. You can fire a 100 round stream and keep all the rounds in a person sized target at 100 yards EASILY. Ghost Recon is the same basic engine as RS and all they did was to beef up the graphics & sound. Nice. Putting the game more out doors is indeed a nice touch... but again, GR's strength is in it's multiplayer ability. The AI is improved - but not nearly enough... The Bad Guy AI's are clever and they will take you by surprise. But the AI Backups that you have with you are just plain STUPID. They will fire once in awhile but most often will just stand there taking fire like lump. These guys are supposed to be elite soldiers of some sort? Boys Scouts would do a better job! One thing that pisses me off about GR is that these badguys are VERY GOOD shots. Why can't my AI Backup Soldiers get some of this marksmanship training? These badguys will headshot you from long range, through fog, and while you are behind concealment. Nice. This butt scratching fat smoking AK slinging slob with a hood on is a much better guard than my AIs are soldiers. Great. Oh - and the SCOPES ARE ON BACKWARDS! Nice. Yeah - GOOD JOB ON GHOST RECON! You want some more of that game... Get BLACK THORN.
__________________
MAD OGRE
George Hill is offline  
Old November 28, 2001, 01:35 PM   #13
Vladimir_Berkov
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 1, 2001
Posts: 378
I agree, George. I played the original Wolfenstein games ALL THE WAY THROUGH. And that includes all the addon packs they had.

RTCW was a big disappointment. First, I can live with some unrealistic things, but the game is based in a pseudo-reality which means that certain things should be realistic. For instance, the guns should at least LOOK right. The gun models in RTCW are absolutely terrible. Day of Defeat models are much better, and that is a free mod made to the older Half Life engine.

Plus, the gameplay of RTCW isn't inovative in any way. It doesn't have the world depth of Half Life, or the great plot of No One Lives Forever, or the great visuals like Max Payne. The maps are drab, the plot dull and the gameplay uninteresting.

Plus, the single player is completely unrelated to the multiplayer. The single player is trying to be a continuation of the fantasy of the older Wolfenstein games. The multiplayer is trying to be a team-based WWII game along the lines of Day of Defeat. So what you end up with is a single player game with no depth, and a multiplayer game which is too corny to be taken seriously as a WWII game.
Vladimir_Berkov is offline  
Old November 28, 2001, 02:07 PM   #14
Ledbetter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2000
Location: California USA
Posts: 4,533
"Scheusstaffel!"

I'm glad I'm not the only one who prefers the first person shooter to the task of controlling idiotic AI characters who learn nothing as the game progresses.

Too much like my job at work I guess.

I'm still enjoying online Team Fortress and it's variants. Maybe I'll give Max Payne a try, I've got the demo at home, uninstalled.

Thanks for the reports.

"Reaper"
Ledbetter is offline  
Old November 28, 2001, 02:45 PM   #15
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: October 14, 1998
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,546
Try Operation Flashpoint first... it's cheaper. And more addictive.
__________________
MAD OGRE
George Hill is offline  
Old November 28, 2001, 03:33 PM   #16
Destructo6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 1999
Location: Nogales, AZ USA
Posts: 4,003
Cosmoline, I played both original Castle Wolfenstein games on our new Apple II+ with 48kb of ram. It was great. The first one we had to play using paddles, since we didn't have a joystick. That Apple disappeared in around 1994, still functional. Ah, early PC gaming...
Destructo6 is offline  
Old November 28, 2001, 04:31 PM   #17
OF
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2000
Posts: 2,239
Operation Flashpoint is the best thing to happen to computer gaming since...since...well I don't know when. It's certainly the best war game/shooter I've ever seen.

The friendly AI in Ghost Recon just makes me want to scream. They're all lobotomites with web gear.

- Gabe
OF is offline  
Old November 28, 2001, 04:34 PM   #18
Skorzeny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 1999
Posts: 1,938
Don't use AI. Go solo...

I like not having to rescue people all day long, though...

Skorzeny
Skorzeny is offline  
Old November 28, 2001, 06:44 PM   #19
IamNOTaNUT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2000
Location: Michigan
Posts: 477
Am I the only person in the world who could not play WC because it made me sick? I used to love that game, but withint 10 minutes I felt like I was going to vomit. I haven't tried any similar games since. Motion sickness from a computer screen????? I don't know, but I feel like I'm missing out.
IamNOTaNUT is offline  
Old November 28, 2001, 09:39 PM   #20
Destructo6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 1999
Location: Nogales, AZ USA
Posts: 4,003
Here are some things you can try to avoid motion sickness while playing FPS games:

Put your face closer to the screen.
Put your face further from the screen.
Dim/increase the lights in the room.
Don't drink milk right beforehand.
Give yourself frequent breaks.

There's many more, but the bottom line is everyone is different and you need to experiment with it. Don't quit.
Destructo6 is offline  
Old November 29, 2001, 01:55 AM   #21
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: October 14, 1998
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,546
No - I was the same way with the original Wolfenstein too. It totally made me sick... It was the only FPS that ever made me sick. I still can't look at it.

This new version isnt like that.
__________________
MAD OGRE
George Hill is offline  
Old November 29, 2001, 02:45 AM   #22
David Park
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 2001
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 1,224
If the Nazis no longer say "Mein Leben" do they at least say "Achtung!" when they spot you? At least I think that's what they said, the sound on the old games was so lousy! I loved the Apple ][ games and am awaiting the RTCW single-player demo.

Wolf 3D was released my freshman year in college, and I know I would have had a 4.0 if not for id Software. I stopped gaming after graduation because I only had a laptop. I bought Half-life when I built my current desktop PC, but never got into it. I do like the OfFlash demo, though, so maybe I'm like George and now prefer more realistic games. I'm glad RTCW has kept some of the original Wolf 3D elements though.
David Park is offline  
Old November 29, 2001, 03:24 AM   #23
freeride21a
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2001
Location: occupied state of kommiefornia
Posts: 273
the only problem with OFP, and GR is they are too realistic for the sheeple...you see, sheeple need simplicity to survive because of their limited brain functions and not wanting to think for themselves. that is where falcon4 killed itself...the people who were into hardcore sims masterbated to it..but the rest spit it out..and with in a few months it went from $50 to $19...it was too realistic for the average sheeple q. gamer. the same goes for these others. I adore ghost recon and am m21 master in OFP but neather of these games lend themselves to online tournament play...the playing fields are not even(no new maps yet) enough for clan tournies...in rogue spear you had maps with starting points that were similar(city streets large, bunkers killhouse double and so on)

In short...a small few(mainly us and a few others) will adore these games...but the rest will still play q3a...which sux0rz.
freeride21a is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.06686 seconds with 7 queries