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Old March 29, 2014, 07:00 PM   #26
Marco Califo
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What I posted was actually 9mm data straight from Alliant by email 6 months ago.

I left out my main point which is that: the old Alliant data is still good.

They stopped listing a lot of shotgun powders for handgun loads, due to introducing better powders like Power Pistol. But the old Red Dot, Green Dot, Herco, Unique and Blue Dot handgun loads are still safe and valid. If you email that guy he will send you the old data. It is not visible in their online load guide.

You can get the old pamphlets here:
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Old March 30, 2014, 06:56 AM   #27
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That was one of the reasons I thought Red Dot was not being used much because t isnt even listed in the load data anymore to speak of .
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Old March 30, 2014, 07:58 AM   #28
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Red Dot and Green Dot both work great. I like both of them in my .38 and .45. The newer versions of those powders burn a lot cleaner than the old stuff. Great powders. Don't hesitate to grab some if you can during this shortage.
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Old March 30, 2014, 08:39 AM   #29
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In addition to the manuals at CastPics linked above, here is a good quality PDF of the Alliant 2004 manual:
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Old March 30, 2014, 12:33 PM   #30
Marco Califo
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I never found Red Dot to be dirty in 12g . When someone says this or that powder burns dirty, the fact is the application (pistol, rifle, shotgun, projectile weight) and load have all the responsibility for clean burning. Powders burn perfectly clean in their optimal intended use. Blue Dot makes a mess in pistol loads, but is clean when you are throwing 1 1/2 ounces of lead shot at max velocity in 12g. Don't blame the powder. Reexamine your choices of loading variables. Whatever is making a powder burn dirty is determined by your load choice.

Edit: Pressure is a key determinant to complete (clean) burning. Each powder has a certain pressure profile. The pressure your load will get, in relation to the powders pressure profile, influences how clean a load will be.

Last edited by Marco Califo; March 30, 2014 at 01:50 PM.
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Old March 30, 2014, 01:28 PM   #31
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I use Red Dot in my .45 auto under 200 grain swc bullets and it is very accurate and soft shooting. Good in my .38s also. I have a bunch of this and Promo since I shoot .45 the most. Doesn't meter very well, so I hand measure, but for my standard 4.0 grain load one dipper is the perfect size so it doesn't slow me down much.
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Old March 30, 2014, 10:49 PM   #32
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I use a LOT of promo (same burning rate as Red Dot, different density) in several handgun calibers, including 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP. I also use it for a lot of 12ga reloading.

While it does burn a bit dirty, can't beat the price. An 8lb jug of Promo is $90.00, versus $18-22 per POUND for 231, etc.

Red Dot data for handgun cartridges is a bit scarce in newer manuals and online, but as mentioned the older data is still valid. I have manuals and manufacturers brochures going back may years, so I can normally find Red Dot/Promo data for anything I need. I just have to dig a little some times.

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Old March 31, 2014, 01:43 PM   #33
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Blue Dot makes a mess in pistol loads,
I have found that Blue Dot burns fairly clean in .44 Mag size cases and load levels.

In smaller cases, not so much, and not at all suitable for things like the 9mm Luger or smaller, its just too slow.
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
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Old March 31, 2014, 03:23 PM   #34
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Not being argumentative

With all due respect, Blue Dot is listed for 9mm in both the 2004 Alliant manual linked above, and in the 1998 one that I have on my computer.

My old standard 9 mm load was a 125 grain Star JSP over 7.8 grains of Blue Dot. It was under the 8.2 grain max listed in those Alliant manuals for 125 g FMJ, burned pretty clean, and was accurate in my CZ-75 and Highpower.

Blued Dot is far from ideal in 9 mm. I bought it back then because it was listed in the old Speer manual for both 9 mm and .357 magnum (and there are lots better powders for both calibers).

I only am posting this now because powder is in short supply, and if someone wants to load 9 mm and can only find Blue Dot, it is usable safely.

Not trying to be difficult or a smart alec.
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