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Old June 16, 2013, 12:05 PM   #1
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308 & 30-06 reloading

I need help picking a good load for my m1 grand and my new m1a nm . I have some Mir 4895 powder and 150 g bts. What other types of powder would work better then the 4895? Thanks for your info that you have
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Old June 16, 2013, 02:46 PM   #2
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Old June 16, 2013, 03:19 PM   #3
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IMR 4895 is what most M1 loaders use (I think), it is what I was with my limited experience. Can't offer anything regarding the .308.
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Old June 16, 2013, 03:34 PM   #4
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I say 41 grains for 308, and 46 grains for 3006.
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Old June 16, 2013, 04:44 PM   #5
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Thanks guys!
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Old June 16, 2013, 04:51 PM   #6
William T. Watts
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IMR4064, this powder is a little bulkier than IMR4895 and fills the case better, I use 47.5grs of IMR4064 in W-W cases, 47.0grs in R-P cases. William
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Old June 17, 2013, 07:48 AM   #7
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I use RL 15 in 308, but only ever used 4895 or 4064 in 30-06, for which I haven't loaded in many years.
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Old June 17, 2013, 09:52 AM   #8
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Works Better?

Why fool around with perfection?

The US Army used a number of powders, WC852, IMR 3031, in the 30-06 case and these were all based on cost considerations. However the powder used in majority of National Match ammunition was IMR 4895. This is not by accident, the Army literally tested hundreds of thousands of rounds each year when deciding on the propellant.

Now, if you build your Garand and M1a into match rifles they may do slightly better with different propellants, but it won't be a night and day difference.

I have shot with many shooters who preferred IMR 4064 in their Garand's/M1a's, it is a great powder.

I think any of the IMR 4895 copies, H4895/AA2495 should be your first test choice in the Garand/M1a, then experiment with IMR 4064, maybe Varget, maybe IMR 3031. I have used all of these at one time or another in the M1a, they all work, and they will all shoot inside your hold.

I don't like ball powders, they are too messy.

IMR 3031 is the fastest I would go and IMR 4064 is the slowest. So those are your powder burn rate boundaries. Go experiment and find what is best.
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Old June 17, 2013, 12:38 PM   #9
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Well, perfection can be in the eye of the bullet and rifle. Most guns seem to prefer some powder and bullet combinations over others. Federal concluded early on that IMR 4064 was better in the .308 for the Gold Medal Match version .308 Win load with 168 grain SMK's than 4895 for a wide range of rifles. Bart B. or Hummer90 probably have some records showing how well M852 compared to the Federal GMM 168 SMK ammunition, as both used the same bullet, but had 4895 and 4064, respectively, at the time. Federal switched the GMM to Reloader 15 after ATK bought them and ATK also switched M118LR to Reloader 15 at Lake City, which they manage, but when pressure issues occurred in high temperatures Federal developed the newer Mk316 version for the M24 system usning 4064, which didn't have the issues and which they find shoots the 175 grain SMK most reliably accurately for that reason.

IMR 4895 was introduced in 1941 for .30-06 in all the military weapons systems in that chambering at the time, which included the Garand and '03 and BAR and various machineguns. It's bound to be pretty good in them, but does leave more empty space in the case than 4064 or Varget will.

I once had a bunch of LC 64 M72 NM ammo that I ran as test rounds through several club Garands, and recorded velocities for them with an Oehler 35P chronograph. On average, if I pointed a chambered rifle down to get the powder away from the flash hole before firing, I lost 80 fps as compared to pointing it up first. That's the downside of the 4895 loading density. Either 4064 or Varget cut that by over 30 fps just by filling the case better.

Below is the result of an experiment Dave Milosovich reported in the 1995 Precision Shooting Reloading Guide. He loaded both IMR 4895 and IMR 4064 under 180 grain bullets in .308 Winchester to find how much of each was needed at different fixed velocities in his rifle (don't recall the barrel length). You can see the charge weights matched at 2400 fps. Below that it took less 4064, as if it were the faster burning powder, but above that it took more, as if it becomes the slower burning powder at pressures higher than that. The overall effect is simply that, within a normal operating pressure range, its burn rate is increased less by pressure. That explains its relative insensitivity to charge weight variance and to conditions, like temperature, that should change its performance. Based on that, I think it's simply a better candidate powder for match conditions.

On the other hand, Varget does even better than 4064 at this in .308 Win, and while it has made some top match loads for some shooters, it's not always the one that comes out on top for accuracy. But it's worth consideration for this reason.

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Old June 17, 2013, 09:01 PM   #10
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Thanks for all you info guys! And thanks for the link 89blazin , it was some good reading and I passed it on to some other grand shooters. I planned on using gi brass in both the grand and m14
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