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Old May 9, 2013, 09:58 PM   #51
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A good bolt action rifle will give you the most accuracy for the dollar,although I do have a DPMS AP4 that shoots pretty darn good for a 16 inch carbine.
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Old May 11, 2013, 11:26 AM   #52
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Bart says how do we choose

I would say that if the spread in group sizes is as extreme as your example, we look for a problem in the system. Possibly an ammunition problem. More likely a rifle problem. MOST likely a shooter problem.
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Old May 13, 2013, 08:05 AM   #53
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One of each.

If we are alike at all, you will probably get one of each.

Choose one today, take your time, put a good optic on it, develop a good load, and shoot it for awhile. Then as time and funds allow, start looking at the other, and narrow down your selections, and find the one which speaks to you in that department.

Over the years I have learned that I enjoy buying and shooting firearms, and one cannot have too many! Just don't be in a hurry, take your time and enjoy the process.

308 is a pretty good choice in cartridges. I do find, however, that I shoot my bolt rifle more than my semi auto, it shoots more accurately, has better glass, balances better, and truth to tell, I just enjoy it more. It helps that the brass is easy to find and I don't have to "do the pickin' chicken" after expending a magazine of ammo, searching about on the ground and picking up brass.

Good luck in your search.
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Old May 18, 2013, 05:55 PM   #54
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An super accurate bolt 308 costs way less than a super accurate semi 308.
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Old May 18, 2013, 07:38 PM   #55
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My $.02 is about the same as everyone else's...
Better accuracy for the buck with the bolt gun, due to simplicity alone.

But I didn't see anyone mention that mag length might be a limiting factor with the AR platform, if you want to load heavy VLD's to the lands?

No particular knowledge of that specific application, but if it's an issue with bolt guns, it seems logical it would apply more to the AR...
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Old May 27, 2013, 12:24 PM   #56
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I think you need to figure out if you want a carry gun or a dedicated bench gun. You aren't lugging a Remington Police around the deer woods up mountains and down for a week long hunting trip. If you want a semi auto, they are more complex and thus heavier than a comparible bolt rifle. If you don't particularly need blistering rapid fire and 4 or 5 rounds in the magazine are enough, a good Ruger, Remington, Marlin, Savage, Howa, Kimber etc will serve you well for a long time. Lighter contour barrels will heat up faster than a bul barrel but keep in mind if you are hunting and not planning to shoot from a bipod where weight is a plus, even a sporter barrel can be very accurate in 308.
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Old June 12, 2013, 08:36 AM   #57
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I got my M1A for nostalgia and fun shooting at the range - until I put a scope on it. It's 100% reliable, accurate, and balances well - but it is heavy. If I can just find a load with the Nosler 150/168 gr. Ballistic Tip that shoots as good as my target stuff then I think it would make a good feral hog gun. For deer I'll stick with by bolt actions.

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Old July 6, 2013, 01:18 PM   #58
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With new machining and everything, it doesn't matter if its semi auto or the bolt action. Bolt actions are more elegant and have a legacy over semi auto.
I own PTRs, G3, and M1. LeEnfield M4 chambered 308 is my favorite. I would suggest buy a new PTR91. Nothing beats this in the market than this neat thing.

Buy LC or Seneca Armory ammo and off you o to an enjoyable 308 experience.
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Old July 6, 2013, 06:29 PM   #59
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rc, you mention lighter contour barrels will heat up faster than a bull barrel but keep in mind if we're are hunting and not planning to shoot from a bipod where weight is a plus, even a sporter barrel can be very accurate in 308.

What does barrels heating up have to do with this?

Properly built with all the right stuff, neither bolt or semiauto rifles change point of impact as their barrels heat up.

Nor does the barrel weight or profile matter. As long as they whip and wiggle the same for each shot, best accuracy is at hand; they do in both types.
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Old July 6, 2013, 06:48 PM   #60
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Ill just chime in to say that IMO a Semi is not a good " beginners " rifle to go long range with . They can be just as accurate out past fort mudge , but you have to be on your game to wring it out of them , The basics of position, trigger control , and follow through cannot be cheated at all if your shooting much past 500 with them . I love mine but would honestly tell someone starting out on the long range game to get a bolt just because it is imo easier to get good results faster .
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Old July 11, 2013, 02:46 PM   #61
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i agree that you will find bolt actions to be less expensive then a semi-auto and usually 4-6 lbs lighter, so for hunters that makes a lot of difference to people. Id say if you can find a good deal on a semi-auto go for it, I decided that a FNAR 20" bull barrel for 1100.00 was a great deal. But, I will still be buying a cost-effective bolt .308 like the axis or ruger american too. I decided spend my money on a semi .308 vs a 5.56ar like most.

After i get some rounds loaded- i'll go get some groups for you all.
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Old July 11, 2013, 08:14 PM   #62
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The DPMS Oracle .308, MSRP of $1099 and somewhat less if you search the Internet, is optics ready. Add a low-budget scope and you will enjoy VERY sub-MOA groups all day long. They are genuine tack-drivers. Sure, a .308 entry-level bolt gun with a factory mounted variable scope, that will deliver equal accuracy can be had for ~$400. But that's the end of it.

The AR platform offers its owner opportunity for almost infinite customization. Swap uppers for more target oriented set ups with long, heavy barrels, even swap calibers for different applications. Multiple sighting and lighting options may be installed simultaneously to address varying circumstances. And if the poop ever hits the oscillating blades, you have a dandy battle rifle as well. Serious hi-capacity magazines, even drums can be had if desired. The AR in 308 is a rifle that will grow along with you, meeting your increasing experience and changing needs or wants at every step. Entry-level bolt guns eventually morph into monuments to diminishing marginal returns.

Nothing comes close to the flexibility, and versatility of the AR15 platform. Buy it right, and resale value stays high. Occasionally, as you can see on auction sites, they even appreciate. Your bargain bolt gun will lose value before the ink is dry on the 4473. You get what you pay for, sometimes, and a .308 AR rifle is definitely one of those times.
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Old July 11, 2013, 10:03 PM   #63
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IMO a good bolt gun is king for accuracy, I own several of each and my bolt actions are superior for accuracy.

Also IMO, a good "hunting" rifle will hold it's accuracy from 1st shot to 50th or whatever well enough that most shooters will not loose enough accuracy to shake a stick at. For example, my .338 will stay accurate for as long as most anyone can stand to shoot the thing.
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