Open Carry culture

[Longun]

Under OC rules here I can carry a shotgun, rifle or hand gun in my hands. Brandishing would be pointing, vocally threating, intimidation or unholstering a gun without an immediate threat. as for CC to OC I do it a half dozen times a day. In the truck = CC get out of the truck = OC

One night Mrs. Longun was driving us back north and made a wrong turn. When she woke me we were in a rather bad neighborhood and its 2:30 am. We travel maybe ten blocks and it is just getting worse. I see a party store open a head. In front of this store there is between 15 & 20 men standing around and at least half have a bottle in hand. As I get out of the car I tell her to remember the name of the store and if things go bad to keep moving roll every stop light until she finds a cop. I grab my 1911 off the seat walk behind the car and head for the store as I start getting close I can see the man inside is behind bullet proof glass and by the fractures it had been tested. I am now about 20’ from the men 30’ from the glass. Looking back it was like Moses parting the seas. I was given a very wide berth on both sides. I have now reached the glass the man inside shakes his head and tells me you are one crazy a## white boy. I know its going to be ok at that point if the clerk thought I was nuts good chance the others did to. So I slip a twenty half way under the glass and say I need directions to I75 fifteen min. later back on the highway.

As for tactical advantage a 1911 in hand is worth two under a shirt.

Longun

[RBid]

Originally Posted by Koda94

How ironic, while traveling thru Newberg Oregon yesterday I stopped for gas. A truck pulled up for gas and the passenger that got out to buy a snack in the store was OCing.... my observations, nobody cared or noticed. Based on his demeanor, not only was there nothing to worry about but he seemed very friendly (Newberg is a small town IMO).

Admittingly, Im not up to speed on OC laws in Oregon because I never considered it in any city limit. But I suspect that with a CHL its legal.... (pretty much would end the printing debate) and could be convienient at times....

The skinny in OR is that the State is an OC state, but city law may be more restrictive. In Portland and many other cities (and now, all of Multnomah Co),, open carry of a loaded firearm is allowed if you have an Oregon CHL-- as you seem to have suspected.

Because I OC at work (LGS), I sometimes OC during stops on the way home during the warm season. My preference is CC. I haven't had any bad experiences OCing.

My most notable OC experience was at a gas station. I went inside to get a Cherry Pepsi, and a female customer asked if my gun was real. I said, "No. I'm an actor. I'm an extra in an FBI office scene." She heard "no" and "extra" and decided I was about as interesting as Corn Flakes.

[Aguila Blanca]

Thank you, sigcurious, for producing the law. It seems pretty clear to me, and I'd say your explanation is spot on. Absent an intent to be threatening, exposing your firearm does not appear to be unlawful.

[zcrenna]

Although im very pro OC and CC, even if they were legal where I live (Hollywood), there are too many hipsters that would make a big fuss about me walking around OC'ing.
People at coffee shops would probably get upset and leave wherever I rolled in.
Too much attention.
CC would be preferable. If it were legal I might.

We actually had some guy pull out a gun and open fire just a few miles from where I live late last year, outside a McDonald's off Sunset blvd. He was shooting at traffic. An off duty police officer who was packing (concealed) put the guy down only after he got a few shots off. No one was hurt. A complete hero in my book. But you can bet that story didn't make it into the news too much.. Which is a shame.

Anyways, pro OC and pro CC (as long as the person is properly educated and has a permit). Just like I wouldn't to drive on the same streets with people who never learned to drive and don't have a license.

[Mausermolt]

I used to open carry in Eastern Oregon and Idaho before i was eligible for my CHL. but i didnt do it alot. over in idaho i would get alot flak in wal-mart so i just stopped altogether. i dont really like explaining to people if "i had a license" or if i thought i was Rambo. it just gets annoying so i waited till i was 21 and got the permit, now its concealed for me all the time. unless im hunting or out in the bush of course.

Koda your probably close to Portland right? my brother lives in Gresham and he heard on the news where a guy got arrested in Portland for OC(even though he had a CC permit) they charged him with disturbing the peace and one other thing i dont remember. not sure if he was causing a muck or the PPD overreacted.

either way OC in Portland area = Bad juju for youyou

[Theohazard]

Aguila Blanca and sigcurious:

OK, so I found out more about transitioning from concealed to open carry in Washington. I was wrong about the law as I initially stated it; the law simply is as stated above.

The law quoted by sigcurious is the WA statute that limits open carry (RCW 9.41.270). Arrests and subsequent court rulings have both clarified and obfuscated the issue. As a result, many experts recommend keeping the weapon completely concealed when CCing and also exercising a large amount of discretion when OCing. In the words of one local expert:

In an urban setting, you could be cited under RCW 9.41.270, depending on your behavior; that is, if your behavior "warrants alarm". Enforcement of the law is weighted toward a subjective judgement on the part of the observer, whether a private citizen or police officer, and NOT in the intent or action of the armed citizen.

When I was advised about transitioning from concealed to open carry, the advice was based on avoiding undue attention and possible arrest, and not based on a specific prohibition in the law.

[Koda94]

Originally Posted by Mausermolt

either way OC in Portland area = Bad juju for youyou

I lived in SE for a while... trust me I know. The self righteous there can be brutal, if you show up with a gun they will protest you out, if you show up naked (not kidding here) they will praise you and protest any police that showed up to question you. I don't know about the guy OCing you mentioned, but recently in protest to some of the gun control legislation some guys walked around with their AR15's in protest or not they were allowed to carry on despite schools in lockdown and 911 flooded with calls. (news reported they had CHL's)

So far, everything I read says its legal with a CHL with a possible huge grey area regarding OCing on the Portland Streetcar and some very confusing place called an "Illegal Firearm Use Hotspot"...
Streetcar source: 14A.110.280 Weapons
Hotspot source: 14A.90.010(b)

regardless, I have no plans on OCing in Suburbia or downtown. It's obviously more acceptable in rural areas and what is good to learn from this thread though especially in those places its not a big deal, as well as learn one can transition to OC without ramifications.... or not worry about switching to a lighter shirt in hotter weather.

Now what would be interesting to read is those that OC in downtown and the reactions etc.

[shouldazagged]

The lower the profile I can maintain, the happier I am. OC is legal in Kentucky without a license (I don't like the term "permit", it sounds servile), and we are a shall-issue state. I live in a metro area of a million people. I could legally carry openly. I could also go out in public dressed as a two-toed sloth. Either would attract attention I don't want. I'll carry concealed in the city.

Unfortunately, many of the people I see practicing OC are Wally World commandos: full camo, large handguns in holsters with little if any retention capability, lots of swagger and loud talk. Their attitude seems to be, "I do this because I can, and if you don't like it, what are you going to do about it?" These people are not helping our cause.

Carry openly if you wish, and if you aren't doing it to parade your machismo. This crippled-up old man will stay unobtrusive and hope not to have to use his gun.

[armoredman]

shoulda, I understand - in the small town in which I work is one ragged individual, always wears torn cargo shorts, dirty t-shirt, carries a Glock 17 in a Safariland retention holster OC, on a belt so thin and frayed it might as well be a spaghetti noodle. I tried to mention High Noon Holsters as a good source of concealed carry leather as well as good gun belts, and he cut me off with "I don't conceal, ever." Not a great ambassador for rights, though he HAS ever right to do exactly that. It IS a retention rig, but it can be defeated by just breaking that noodle it's mounted on.
Jeremiah, we got CCW in 1994 in AZ, Constitutional Carry in 2010. Long road, but we made it, and so can other states.

[treg]

I'm not an extroverted person. If you can see my house without an invite you're trespassing. I OC around the farm, in the woods, and when I'm out and about on my horse. But in town and in "public" I keep it under wraps, 'specialy when on the horse - that draws enough attention as it is.

Don't need the extra attention, or to be the first one taken out if there's trouble.

[justplainpossum]

I always open carry on my ranch, and sometimes on my neighbors' ranches (if they don't care). When I was in Montana there was an older gentleman open carrying in town; it was jarring for a couple of seconds, and then it was just like, well, okay. Guess that comes from being raised on westerns.

[tomrkba]

Unfortunately, many of the people I see practicing OC are Wally World commandos: full camo, large handguns in holsters with little if any retention capability, lots of swagger and loud talk. Their attitude seems to be, "I do this because I can, and if you don't like it, what are you going to do about it?" These people are not helping our cause.

Seriously? I have NEVER seen one person in Virginia, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, Nevada, Montana, or Texas (long gun only) acting like that while open carrying. I think it is highly likely you are applying your own thoughts to their actions and, in particular, their attitude.

I have yet to see anything positive come from the OC movement, yet I cited one example where a right exercised was a right lost.

and

Citation?

California comes to mind.

What an absolutely disingenuous response! California was lost long ago and the silly rules governing open carry made it very clear to anyone doing so that they did so at the pleasure of the legislature. The gun had to be fully unloaded and was subject to search. In Virginia, which honors its constitution, the gun and open carrier are NOT subject to search. They are strictly protected against police officers exceeding their authority.

We also know that the California legislature saw open carry as a "problem" that needed to be fixed. How in the world can an honest man believe that there is a right to keep and bear arms in California and then turn around and argue in a public forum that the right was lost there?

From a public point of view, you aren't going to sway pro-gunners or anti-gunners one way or another. It's the people in the middle.

That is also incorrect. The "people in the middle" vote for any of a hundred "issues" and don't vote the level solely based upon where a politician stands on the right to keep and bear arms. They vote because they like the person, that person advocates for their pet agenda, or most likely, because the candidate is on Team R or Team D. Neither of us has any idea how open carry affects votes because it has not been studied (if it does, please provide me with a link because I would like to review it). Open carry is such a minor issue in the minds of "the middle" that it doesn't even register. Most people in open carry states have no idea they can even open carry!


Back on topic:

How does this work for those that do? What kind of response do you get? Do you go to house parties, dinner parties etc. while open carrying? Are you single, married? Do you live in rural areas, the country, or suburbia... downtown? Has anyone 'freaked out' on you? Harassed by the police? Told to leave a restaurant, store etc.? How do you incorporate this into your daily lives....

The infrequent instances in which I open carried have resulted in nearly zero response. Waitresses do not notice or care. People in the store tend not to notice, though I may get a few looks here and there. Occasionally, someone will come up and talk about it. I carry a little card by Ed on opencarry.org or VCDL's small wallet bill that presents the issue and provides citations.

As for "tactics", it's really a wash. There's not enough data either way to say there is a tactical advantage or disadvantage. We do know that uniformed police officers are not shot daily for open carrying, wearing uniforms, or otherwise driving around terrible neighborhoods. We also know that many people open carrying are not attacked by criminals. There are a few instances either way. My last count as of 2012 was even up. Maybe there have been a few more robberies of OC'ers or maybe there have been more crimes deterred, but we don't really know either way.

It's best to just carry however you wish to do so within the legal framework of your state.

[Paul B.]

I live in the "free state" of Arizona, have my CCW and sometimes I semi-OC my handgun, usually in ,u truck. If I stop at a store tat says no guns, I go elsewhere. If I'm going to an un posted store or other business and there is no sign, I remove my gun and put it in my pocket. (S&W M60) I do it out of courtesy to those who either are anti-gun and looking for an arguement and so as to not possibly disturb others who may be uncomfortable at the sight of my firearm. I mean why look for a confrontation? My hat does say NRA on it and sometimes I get a rude comment. I gently try to talk them into looking at the 2nd ASmendment in another way. They never even know that I'm armed. I've actually change a few people's minds when they know all the historical facts.
Paul B.

[Tom Servo]

How in the world can an honest man believe that there is a right to keep and bear arms in California and then turn around and argue in a public forum that the right was lost there?

I never said they were respecting the RKBA. I only pointed out that the slender sliver of the right to carry that remained was legislated out of existence. That process was accelerated by the antics of certain zealots who claimed to be on our side.

[lcpiper]

I am pleased that Arizona, and particularly our Governor Jan Brewer, has such a common sense approach to the whole subject.

In simplest terms, they believe in the 2A and the RKBA. In doing so they also believe that the good regulation of firearms carry should not make a criminal of someone who is not doing anything criminal.

If all a citizen is doing is carrying a gun, concealed or otherwise, and this citizen is not a prohibited possessor, or carrying a firearm where it is not allowed, then they are committing no crime and will not be inconvenienced.

I don't think it get's any better then that.

[armoredman]

Paul, gotta say in almost 46 years of living in AZ I've never gotten a rude comment to an NRA hat. I did have a Circle K clerk as me once if my Springfield 1911A1 was a "25 auto"...that was many years ago.

[huskybiker]

During the week, I must conceal carry because my place of employment has an "out of sight" policy. When the weather is warm, I normally open carry on the weekends. I always try to behave in a friendly manner and say hello to most people I come in contact with. In over five years, I haven't had one negative encounter. As has already been said, most people don't even notice.

[Lt. Skrumpledonk Ret]

I have yet to see anything positive come from the OC movement, yet I cited one example where a right exercised was a right lost.

Wisconsin Carry at a restaurant in Madison, WI. in 2010.
http://www.thedailypage.com/daily/ar...?article=35497

[lcpiper]

Lt. Without any commentary on your part I can't tell if you see something positive in this story or if it's the other way around.

Personally I see this as a negative.

The old woman who called the cops was wrong, perhaps she was traveling and has some excuse, but still ...

The Police dispatcher was wrong, maybe I'll give them a break for erring on the side of caution or not having an option given established procedure .....

The responding Officers were really wrong, come on, these guys are sitting at a table gawing and not doing anything at all illegal or that would justify any legal attention. The Officers shouldn't have said anything more then "Hey, nice shooter, what loads are working good in it?" ....

The Department and the DA were wrong, this should have been immediately dropped, the cops disciplined and retrained, and apologies should have been sincere and immediately forthcoming.

Some people see this as a victory for the oppressed gun owner, I see it as a failure of our society to maintain a correct and proper attitude towards firearms ownership.

It's not like we haven't owned firearms since day-1 of this nation's founding.

[superspirit]

Here in NM, OC is legal and I do it daily, have been since the newtown incident, I have never had any negative responses, never been questioned by an LEO's or harassed in any way. I have had people come up and thank me for excersizing my constitutional right. I do not have a CC permit so I cannot carry CC, but have been considering getting one. however with the 100 degree weather here in the desert I dont see myself wearing the clothing required to CC, my denim shorts and a t-shirt are daily attire. I am married and it doesn't bother the wife at all, she just reminds me when I need to take it off as it's not allowed in a restaraunt that serves alcohol, though she has hers hidden in her purse. so we are still protected. I do however not carry it to the school when picking up my grand daughter as to not stir up alarm, I don't carry at her soccer games either for the same reason, however most of the time that I'm not, my wife's purse is in reach. As for visiting, if the people I would visit had a problem with it , then they would be the people I wouldn't want to visit. like I said i haven't encountered one negative response since I started OCing.