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Old April 11, 2013, 07:45 PM   #26
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For white tail I would go with the 7x57. The 7mm Mag is best left for someone that has more experience with shooting. For many new to that round it can start a habit of flenching that can extend to all center fire rifles one shoots after that.

I would also suggest if funds will allow, and it is legal with your state's game laws to look into a good used .243 Win bolt action, or one of the affordable package rifles. After sighting one in, they are good to go on white tail deer out to 150 yards (maybe more, though I would stick in the 100 yards area for comfort.) Also if sticking to 100 yards or less a good used lever action in .30-30 Win is also a good rifle. I stated those two due to the fact that you can find ammo for them at most any place that sells ammo. You stated that your stepfather is the reloader. I stated round that you can buy yourself.

Another suggestion would be to instead of purchasing new equipment find an instructor, and pay for a few one on one sessions. I think that would be the best route to go. It is what I would suggest to most people.
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Old April 11, 2013, 10:52 PM   #27
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It will do.....

I really don't believe that the 7mm magnum is all that much more gun than a 30-'06 or even a 270 Winchester. Put a slip-on recoil pad on it, That will lengthen it a little but y'all are pretty tall anyway, right? If you are shooting reloads, try to find an accurate load using 160 grain bullets at about 2700-2800 fps to slow it down a little, further reducing recoil if you're worried about it. As far as meat damage goes, it can be eliminated entirely by not shooting them in the meat. A broadside lung shot is best for that. Don't take 400 yard shots at deer unless you can sit on the ground or kneel and hit five straight milk jugs filled with water at that distance without missing. And you better be able to estimate or laser the range when it's that far out. What if you guessed it was 450 yards and it was really 285? And when you practice, shoot standing, kneeling, and perhaps sitting. Shooting off a bench or pick-up hood is only good for testing rifle and ammunition to verify impact at given ranges. It's worthless for practice. Use milk jugs filled with water starting at 100 yards and various and uncertain ranges out to 400 or more yards. At the 100 yard jugs, shoot only from the standing, off hand positon. When you get to where you can't hit them, go to the kneeling position. When they are too far away to hit reliably kneeling, try the sitting position. When they are too far to hit sitting, then that's way too far to take a shot at game. Bring lots of jugs and lots of ammo. Then when you are hunting and see a 400 yard deer, stalk closer. You won't shoot better than you have practiced. Lose the Bic-clik. Get a bolt action .22 LR rifle and shoot it a lot every time you practice. Soup cans at 75-100 yards standing and kneeling. This will save centerfire ammo and cure flinching. But the trajectory of .22 rimfire ammo means you shouldn't use it much beyond 100 yards a lot or you might develop a habit of holding way over your target at longer ranges. Like O'Connor, I'd recommend you zero your 7mm's at about 275 yards. I'd rather have a 30-'06 or preferably a 270 than a magnum but what you have will do just fine.
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Old April 12, 2013, 08:10 AM   #28
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thank you. that sounds like very good advice. i have been shooting a lot of 22 rounds and was very happy with the results shooting both my 7 mag and mauser yesterday. i know people insist that the mag has too much recoil but i honestly don't see it. my 30-06 kicked harder in my opinion. it doesn't bother me at all. my girlfriend shot it and did very well also. we have been hunting for a few years with old single shot 12 gauges and i use a 12 gauge pump and 3 and a half inch shells for goose hunting, so recoil isn't something i'm afraid of. the type of hunting we have here in northern maine makes it very hard to get very close to a deer. our deer population vs. the amount of woods we have is the reason. the best place to see find them is inopen fields and that often means taking a shot of 2 to 300 yards or more. i had no business attempting the shot i did last year and got very lucky in my opinion. i am going to work with what i have for rifles and keep at it until i'm consistent and comfortable with some long range shots.
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Old April 12, 2013, 08:13 AM   #29
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in mentioning my stepdad i think i may have given some the impression that i'm younger than i am as well. i'm actually 38 years old and just a little late to the deer hunting game.
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Old April 12, 2013, 09:29 AM   #30
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With similar bullet weights a 30-06 and 7mm rem mag are nearly identical out to 300 yards--the maximum distance MOST hunters should ever attempt an ethical shot at deer-sized animals. The most important thing about hunting is being able to hit your target. A 22-250 would do the job just fine with good bullet placement (along with the proper bullet). It's not what you've got, it's how you use it......

I use a 7mm mag and a .300 win mag on our small deer in coastal California and with the right bullet I get excellent performance and minimal damage. Shooting a deer through the shoulders is a guarantee of bloodshot meat IMO; through the chest behind a shoulder puts 'em down with little meat loss. I agree that true hunting is getting in close; there's NOTHING like shooting a good buck at 10 yards with a bow, or stalking in and waiting on a harem'd up buck and plugging him with a muzzleloader.

I would say you have the right idea to practice with your equipment. It shows respect for the animal you are hunting. Either rifle will work just fine; pick the one you shoot best and feel most confident with. Only you can judge your personal hunting conditions.
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Old April 12, 2013, 12:14 PM   #31
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The 7mm mag is lot of gun for whitetail. The real drawback to it is the recoil bothers a lot of people, and that, added to the cost of the ammo usually means people don't practice as much as they need to.

Since the recoil doesn't bother you, you're fine. Much more important is your habit of clicking the trigger. Doing that means it will be very difficult to place a precise shot at range.

For that, I recommend as much practice (with any gun) as you can manage. Dry Firing is good cheap practice. Your rifle should not be harmed by it, but check the manua to be sure.

Take the unloaded gun, and tape a laser pointer to it (it doesn't have to be perfectly lined up with the bore), and aim at a wall. Watch the dot (not the sights) as you squeeze the trigger. If it bounces around when you dry fire, you need more practice. You can also do this without the laser, using the sights, just aim at a specific point, and see if the sights move when you pull the trigger. Check to make sure the gun is unloaded first. Then check again. And then check again. Any time the gun leaves your hands, or sight, check it when you pick it up. Its a good habit to have.

When you can dry fire without the dot moving (or barely moving) you are ready for range practice. Any good book on basic marksmanship will give you the basics, and is much handier to refer to with the rifle in your hands than advice on the computer monitor.
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
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Old April 12, 2013, 05:43 PM   #32
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Dang good advice from Amp44... although some who replied here talked her down, I won't hold them in contemp. When you can hunt whitetail deer in open country where the deer are larger bodied or the distances may be further then the 7 MM Rem Mag is the one that gets the call... When I say Larger bodied deer and further distances I mean just that,. I've shot deer with the 7mm rem mag at close range and it really wasn't abusive like some here have suggested,(wonder how many here have actually shot whitetails with a 7mm Rem mag),. It's in the weight and the bullet style you choose to use in this caliber. I've made worse mess of deer with decent shot placement with a 30-06 and150 grain bullets.
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Old April 12, 2013, 11:27 PM   #33
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excellent. i am absolutely going to do that. thank you. i've actually already got a laser sight, i just need to attatch it and get working. i never thought of that
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Old April 13, 2013, 05:38 PM   #34
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Mag. Most grown man can handle the recoil, excellent commercial ammunition is abundant, the rifle will shoot a looooooot further accurately and can serve a dual purpose if more firepower is needed on moose, bear, etc.

7x57 is cool too, though... can't lose.
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Old April 20, 2013, 10:26 AM   #35
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I own and reload a 7X57...

but have no experience with 7RM.

My 7X57 reloads chrono at 2,950 fps MV for a 140 gr bullet, with 1.25 MOA accuracy.

At that velocity, I do get a little recoil, but not enough to bother me.

If your teenager is 6' 6", and 200 pounds, the 7RM recoil might not bother him much, so I think you should let him practice with that, while you practice with the 7X57.

Each rifle is an individual, when it comes to trigger pull, so you should practice with the one you will hunt with. You definitely don't want to "click it like a ball point pen".

Practice by "dry firing", i.e., squeezing the trigger on an empty chamber. To prevent possible damage to the firing pen, buy a "snap cap" and put it in the otherwise empty chamber for practice. You will probably have to buy a 7X57 (and 7 RM) snap cap from Midway, Brownell, or some other catalog, as local gun shops and "big box" sporting goods stores usually don't stock snap caps.

After about 100 repetitions of dry fire, weekly, you should go to the range at least monthly from now until deer season, to live fire, at least 20 rounds per session.
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Old April 20, 2013, 01:22 PM   #36
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m&P, the .243 Win is good to way past 400 yds for whitetail. Its not even getting crunk up good at 100 to 150.
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Old April 20, 2013, 01:24 PM   #37
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Major Dave, as a 6' 6" 270 pounder, I disagree with you on recoil. Recoil hurts us big people worse than it does small people. We have more inertia. Instead of us big folks moving, we just take a beating from the rifle before we move.
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Old April 21, 2013, 06:19 PM   #38
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I am not buying any more white tail tags.
They always seem to out smart me, while Mule deer stand there at 400 yards, giving me a broadside shot from a bipod.

Comparing 7mm cartridges
a) 26" barrel
b) Hornady 7MM .284 DIA 162GR BIG GAME POLY CARB TIP 28452 bullets and moly coated them
Quickload and Quicktarget at close to optimum powder choice and 65kpsi:

7mmT/CU ........................26.1 gr H335 2330 fps -471 yards
7-30 Waters ........................30 gr W748 2456 fps -395 yards
7mmBR ...........................31.2 gr W748 2510 fps -360 yards
7mm IHMSA .......................40.2 gr Re17 2704 fps -247 yards
7mm-08 .......................40.6 gr IMR4895 2789 fps -198 yards
7mm-08AckleyImproved .........43.6 gr Re15 2833 fps -171 yards
7x57mm ...........................44.6 gr Re15 2843 fps -165 yards
7x57mmAckleyImproved .........46.4 gr Re15 2873 fps -150 yards
284Win .........................50.0 gr IMR4350 2890 fps -172 yards
280Rem ............................53.5 gr H414 2961 fps -152 yards
7mm Rem short action ultra mag 55.5 gr Re17 3015 fps -73 yards
280RemAckleyImproved ........57 gr IMR4350 3019 fps -71 yards
7mmRemMag ......................68.2 gr Re22 3129 fps -15 yards
7mmRem ultra mag ............83.3 gr IMR7828 3130 fps -15 yards
7mmWeathMag ....................71.8 gr Re22 3170 fps +7 yards
7mmSTW .............82.2 gr Ramshot Magnum 3158 fps 0 yards

I think the best long range gun the average guy could carry is the 7mmRM with handloads that have a safety margin backed off from the threshold of long brass life.
I have the reamer and have built many 7mmRemMag rifles.
I have a number of 7x57mm rifles too, but they don't get to hunt.

As you can see, the 7mmRM is like being 150 yards closer for power, than the 7x57, and that is if you really knew how to load a 7x57 and did not use powder puff factory ammo.
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Old April 21, 2013, 06:28 PM   #39
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Why fight it?

If you are a trigger-clicker, another route would be to buy a CZ rifle with the single-set trigger.

Set the trigger on one of those, and with practice, you'll soon be a precision trigger-clicker.

A Mauser with a double-set trigger will do the same thing for you - but those are much harder to come by.
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Old April 21, 2013, 10:38 PM   #40
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The Magnum will shoot farther... and harder. Can you use the extra range capability? Do you need it?

The Magnum will kick much, much harder. You care? The Magnum will cost more to feed as ammo is higher in cost and reloading will require more expensive cases and more powder. You care?

Nobody can tell you which gun is best for you or which you will like better. You decide.

I am a simple man with simple tastes. I think the 7x57 is one of the finest rifle cartridges ever designed and have several rifles in this caliber. Yes, the 7mm Magnum will everything better. Do you need to do it better?

If I can't get it done with this, then I guess I don't need to get it done.

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Old April 22, 2013, 10:28 AM   #41
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If I put the largest grind to fit Limbsaver recoil pad on a rifle and then NOT GRIND IT... I get a lot of area of recoil pad on my shoulder.

I can shoot belted magnums with hot loads all day.. 7mmRM, 300WM, and 338WM.

Unlike a Win 94 30-30 with factory ammo and hard butt can bruise the shoulder.

Same pic as above
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Limbsaver recoil Butt pads gone wild gamma 5-17-2012.jpg (62.0 KB, 81 views)
The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books."
"Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist.
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