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Old March 15, 2013, 09:01 PM   #1
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Why the Polymer Public Defender hate?

Why do people not like the Taurus Polymer Public Defender?

They say most threats will attack from a 7 yards. Wouldn't 5 shots of 410 be effective?

I was thinking to keep in the car or from a HD situation. Would this be a good choice? Why do so e consider this a novelty? It seems like a good idea to me.
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Old March 15, 2013, 09:17 PM   #2
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the problems come from the following issues that are well known with the nature of the gun.

long cylinder jump for a 45 caliber bullet, doesnt help accuracy

short barrel doesnt help build up energy for .410 birdshot
rifling kills any chance for an actual shotpattern when using birdshot loads.

its the first ccw sized revolver chambered in 45 colt. seriously, it is. cant say the ruger alaskan is a ccw pocket gun... its nearly twice the weight of the judge..

then you have the issue of it being a taurus. too many people have been upset that the brazilian company was successful with a 410/45 caliber revolver were until now only single shot combination guns have been successful in america.

and because it came out before sw had a similar weapon.

but when you get down to it. a load of federal 410 handgun from that little pocket blaster is going to reinforce "no" in ways a taser or stun gun never will.
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Old March 15, 2013, 09:19 PM   #3
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Only the Taurus haters think it's a bad idea . if it was so bad why did s&w get into the game ? 410 to the face at 10 ft. is gonna stop anyone period !
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Old March 15, 2013, 09:35 PM   #4
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I like Taurus and I like this gun. $399 at Academy makes me happy.

Good point, close up it gets the job done.
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Old March 15, 2013, 11:32 PM   #5
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399 ? gosh, i cant find one locally for under 529.
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Old March 16, 2013, 01:59 AM   #6
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As far as accuracy goes, Hickok45 dispelled the myth that it cant be accurate because of the cylinder length.

As far as effectiveness, like most things you get opinions on the internet, nothing more. Here is mine: Its more effective than the haters would lead you to believe, and its less effective than that fanboys would lead you to believe. Somewhere, in the middle of that, lies the truth.
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Old March 16, 2013, 04:27 AM   #7
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Attempt, just for a moment if you can, to strip the emotion from it.

Go to a happy place where "love", "hate" and all of that ceases to exist.

With no emotion attached, it seems to me (I could be mistaken?) that a Judge of any size or build is a more effective defensive weapon when loaded with .45 Colt ammunition than it is with .410 ammunition. If that is indeed the case, than it doesn't seem to make sense to me to carry something like a Judge when a .45 Colt revolver would do. At that point, you begin to compare what is offered from a .45 Colt revolver to other common defensive handguns of other types, in other chamberings.

I'm happy with my carry gun and it is not a Judge.
I wouldn't want someone ELSE to choose my carry gun.
I would think it equally ludicrous that I choose a carry gun for someone else.

I can find a number of reasons to HATE on a Judge, if that is what is required in this thread, but I don't need to hate on a Judge. I don't need a Judge.

if it was so bad why did s&w get into the game ?
For all the things that Taurus does poorly (and they do a handful), their out-of-the-box ideas and marketing is incredibly strong. Taurus single-handedly convinced the gun buying public that they needed and/or wanted a .410-chambered handgun. At that task, they are brilliant and they are unmatched. Their desire to make something different and capture the attention of the buying public just plain impresses me. Unlike other stodgy outfits, they are willing to market strange, different things in order to attract buyers. I love that about Taurus.

That is why "S&W got in to the game" of making a .410-chambered handgun. They finally threw up their hands and said, "wow, people are going to buy these, we can make money here, we need to make one."

If you believe S&W decided to make a Governor because they truly believe it's the best thing going in defensive handguns... please find anyone at Smith & Wesson that will agree to that.
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Old March 16, 2013, 06:03 AM   #8
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As a child I played with a Cap and Ball ‘bellygun ‘ that had been in the family for several generations. It fired .41 caliber lead ball through a 3” barrel. At 30 feet you would be hard pressed to hit an SUV, but when pushed into the belly of an assailant and touched off it was said to be very effective.
The Taurus Judge fills the same niche…six times over. Will it take down a deer at 100 yards? Probably not. But if the deer pulls a knife on you at arm’s reach…well that was his last mistake.
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Old March 16, 2013, 06:34 AM   #9
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As I've always said about these: explain why its better than a compact double stack semi auto, such as a glock 19? It literally has no advantage unless you were attacked by a snake. This isn't Taurus hate, its the real world. I have noticed a disparity between the Judge owners and experienced, knowledgeable firearms people - why might that be?

S&W got into the game because the Taurus sold so well, despite Taurus's famous mediocre quality. S&W didn't make it because its useful, because after its sold, they do care if it doesn't work, but they don't care if you shoot or not, or what purpose suits you - their main concern is that the gun does what its supposed to do, meaning fire when the trigger is pulled. After that, they have the pesky profit/fiscal concern(s).

Gun companies are always trying to make something new that may or may not be a good idea, and the fact that something is made doesn't mean its well thought out.
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Old March 16, 2013, 10:10 AM   #10
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Taurus hate is the first reason. Say what they will, had S&W brought out the Governor first, all you would hear is how Taurus copied Smith & Wesson's inovative idea.
All the claims of inaccuracy are not proven out in actual use either. Just speculation by those who have never shot one.
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Old March 16, 2013, 10:43 AM   #11
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Where are the accounts of how the Judge has performed in real self-defense encounters? With the number of these guns that have sold, I would imagine the actual use of one has happened from time to time. A local college kid recently shot himself in the thumb with one - how I have no idea - and apparently it hurt... but I digress. Are there any reliable accounts of these things being put to their intended use?
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Old March 16, 2013, 11:10 AM   #12
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To me, it's an answer to a question that was never asked. There are better guns for what ever task you need with out the compromise of this gun.
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Old March 16, 2013, 11:50 AM   #13
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Because it is a novelty that does lots of things but nothing well.
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Old March 16, 2013, 12:11 PM   #14
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Only the Taurus haters think it's a bad idea .
I don't hate Taurus, I own and love one of their firearms and it has given me no reason to not like Taurus products.

That being said, I just have an aversion to polymer framed revolvers. I think they look like toys. It is a cheaper gun, and that is all it really proves. I am not sure about the polymer judge, but their other polymer guns seem about the exact weight of their metal framed revolvers.

I don't dislike the standard judge, just the plastic judge. Kept loaded with 000 buckshot, home, car, personal defense ranges it will kill a threat. You, me and everyone else either likes it or they don't, but I bet a whole lot of people are going to hate the polymer judge because it looks like a toy.

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Old March 16, 2013, 05:02 PM   #15
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Taurus hate is the first reason
It is NOT Taurus hate. Its not. we give perfectly logical reasons why the concept of .410 out of a revolver is a poor SD choice.

Or how taurus QC isn't fantastic.
Or how getting repairs can be costly.
Or how sometimes the return the gun unrepaired.
Or etc.

then all the fan boys come and whine saying we are mean then the thread falls into an argument and becomes locked instead of remaining an adult discussion.

If you like taurus fine. I don't that's also fine. If someone here asks a question we both are capable of posting our opinions, but lets not resort to name calling others when our opinion differ from yours, I don't mock you for your like of taurus do I? I just dissuade other first time purchasers from them due to lack of QC.
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Old March 17, 2013, 09:56 AM   #16
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My personal opinions have been mentioned by others.

1) It's an answer to a question nobody asked.
2) It's a novelty.

The biggest problem I see with it is that you are 100% responsible for EVERYTHING that leaves your gun. Every 410 pellet that comes out of that thing (the wad too) has your name, address, and a few million lawyers attached to it.
If you shoot a 10" pattern half way across the bad guy's head, where is the other half of the scattering shot going to end up? It may not be lethal but there are still consequences of any projectile you launch.
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Old March 17, 2013, 10:37 AM   #17
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Most attacks aren't all attacks. That statement usually means a mugger close up.

My environment clearly includes possible threats at longer distances. I don't need a crappy 45 or throwing pellets around a larger spread.
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Old March 17, 2013, 10:00 PM   #18
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If you are looking for a hand sized weapon that can accurately deliver 5 shotgun blasts or a combination of shotgun and hard hitting bullets at close range; then you found it.
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Old March 18, 2013, 08:46 AM   #19
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the judge line has never been advertised for long range target or hunting practice. sure the long barrelled models do have some advertising pretence to cowboy funtime...

but even if we look at the draw backs of the .410 it replaces the multi ball loads that lots of people miss. ive seen some good reloading data in a handloader magazine last few years on how to recreate the remington multi ball loads in 44,45,38 calibers.

sure, a proper .410 barrel would make it much better for shot.

but on speed and useful ness... well alot of gangbangers with their glocks have been dropped by elderly women with a 70 year old da/sa revolver loaded with 32 long...38sw...38 special....

ive read 78 shots were fired at the ok corral shootout, at a distance of 30 feet. with only flesh wounds.
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