SIST COLT CAL Model 1927 Argentino 1911

JohnZone4Doe · February 8, 2013, 10:40 PM

I just came across a 1911 it says EJERCITO ARGENTINO SIST COLT CAL 11 25mm with the Argentina Coat Of Arms on one side of the slide and on the other side it has D.G.F.M (F.M.A.P).The serial number seems pretty low to me it is in the 46XXX range and they are matching number son the barrel,slide and frame the pistol is in excellent condition and I was wondering if anyone could give me any info on it like reliability,history,how it shoots etc...Thanks

WVsig · February 8, 2013, 10:53 PM

Has the gun been refinished? It looks very green to me. Grips are clearly not original. If it has been refinished in some sort of green duracoat is has been reduced to a sub $400 shooter IMHO.

The gun should look something like this....

JohnZone4Doe · February 8, 2013, 11:06 PM

Yes it was refinished some time go..I just bought it off someone today for real decent price and immediately after took it to a gun store for inspection,the owner of the gun store said it was worth more than I paid for it but I was more concerned about it's history,reliability,quality etc I didn't mean to put value sorry about that.Will i have any problems with 230 grain M1911 ball ammo?Is it a good shooter?Thanks for your input

WVsig · February 8, 2013, 11:13 PM

Numbers Produced at FMAP Rosario and Serial #â€™s, 1945-1966
1945 - 6,000 - #24,001 - #30,000
1946 - 7,628 - #30,001 - #37,628
1947 - 5,000 - #37,629 - #42,628
1948 - 7,000 - #42,629 - #49,628
1949 - 5,000 - #49,629 - #54,628

The gun was made in 1948 based on the serial number. It will fire ball ammo with a good GI spec mag if it has not been shot out or poorly modified. It may also fire JHP and Semi-wad cutters depending on type. If it has not been buggered with it should shoot as well as any other 1911A1 of similar vintage. With these older guns there are no hard and fast rules. There are too many variables. Get good mags and shoot it. The gun itself will tell you more than anyone on the internet can....

Mine shoots ball ammo like it should. It is not as accurate as my Colt 70 repro or my Les Baer but at combat ranges it more than does the job and if I had to I would have no problem defending my life with mine.

JohnZone4Doe · February 8, 2013, 11:38 PM

Thanks for the info..So i Take it you are satisfied with yours?I have a Colt Government Model Series 80 and I love it..After handling this gun I am loving the way it feels in my hand.I was thinking about getting a new barrel for it will aftermarket 1911 45 barrels work in this gun as well?The guy I got it from said he had no problem shooting hollow points through it but I have yet to test that out myself.Do you know any other history on these particular guns?I read in some other forum that they were manufactured for the Argentina Police & Military I was just wondering because I have seen other models like these without the Coat Of Arms on them

sandbag · February 8, 2013, 11:45 PM

I have had one for years-it's got a heavier spring and a full length guide rod(of no real use) and it never misses a beat-BUT is has a 10 lb trigger that can't be improved much if at all-it's fun to shoot if you don't care about tight groups

James K · February 8, 2013, 11:50 PM

There were different markings, not all had the crest. Also at one time Argentine law required that the crest be ground off guns when they were sold by the government; that was later changed, so you can see guns with a ground crest and guns with an intact crest, depending on when the gun was sold.

Jim

JohnZone4Doe · February 8, 2013, 11:55 PM

Someone must have done some work to this gun because the trigger pull is none existent..I barely have to pull the trigger and the hammer drops.The spring is nice and strong and I am loving the way it feels in my hand.Does anyone know if I will be able to put a different barrel on this bad boy without any issues?Thanks for all your feedback..And I know the picture is a bad one but it doesn't do this gun justice in person the OD Green actually looks better than I thought it would and is not rusty or pitted..Since it is so old I would like to try out a new barrel and keep the original stored away..

James K · February 9, 2013, 12:11 AM

Basically, it is a Colt Government Model, so any parts for that gun or its military versions will interchange.

Jim

JohnZone4Doe · February 9, 2013, 12:22 AM

Does anyone know where I can get a quality replacement barrel for a low price?Working on a budget seeing as how I have other projects going on..

**Aguila Blanca** · February 9, 2013, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandbag

... BUT is has a 10 lb trigger that can't be improved much if at all-it's fun to shoot if you don't care about tight groups

Of course the trigger can be improved. It's a license-built, very high quality 1911 and it will respond to a trigger job just like any 1911. A competent 1911-smith can get the trigger down to whatever you want. I prefer 4-3/4 to 5 pounds, but with a Sistema it wouldn't be difficult to get it down to 3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnZone4Doe

Does anyone know where I can get a quality replacement barrel for a low price?Working on a budget seeing as how I have other projects going on..

Why even consider shopping for a barrel if you haven't even shot it yet? You don't know if it needs a barrel.

If you need one, Sarco has their house brand "Roto" barrels for around $45, and they sell what they call a "GI Pattern" barrel for $40. Both are excellent deals and appropriate for an older pistol like the Sistema. But, any new barrel should be fitted, so you could still spend half or more what you paid for the pistol and not improve the accuracy all that much (unless the existing barrel is completely shot out).

2ndsojourn · February 9, 2013, 11:57 AM

I've had one for years that my dad got back in the late 60's and I never researched it but it's apparently from 1946. (Thanks WV) . But mine has what appears to be standard Colt wood grips. It's got some holster wear around the edges but otherwise real clean. I've taken it to the range a few times and shot a variety of ammo through it and never had a problem. It's my bedside gun.

Chesster · February 9, 2013, 12:28 PM

I have had a couple over the years and the only problems I had was the mags that came with them. Replaced with some GI marked mags and they functioned flawlessly with ball ammo.

WVsig · February 9, 2013, 02:48 PM

I would not swap the barrel until you fire it. No need to fix what is not broken. My Sist Colt's barrel still has a lot of life in it.

Mike38 · February 9, 2013, 04:16 PM

I have a Sistema Colt made in 1947. I installed a Kart E-Z-Fit barrel, different slide, Bo-Mar sights and a Cylinder & Slide trigger group. Nice four pound trigger pull and it will shoot 4 inch groups at 50 yards. Feeds SWC ammo just fine. I really enjoy shooting it.

JohnZone4Doe · February 10, 2013, 12:46 AM

I am new to this forum and I just wanted to say to all of you thanks for your input,you all have been extremely helpful.Tomorrow is my birthday so I am taking the kids and going to go out to visit with my parents and maybe me and my dad can go out and test this thing out and shoot the Colt Government Model Series 80 I just got him and see how they compare against each other.I will further evaluate it from there.All in all I am loving the way this thing feels in my hand and overall I am very satisfied and think this could become my bedside gun.Thanks again for your responses.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 10, 2013, 10:04 AM

Here's how to fix your trigger, courtesy of the M1911.ORG Pistols Organization and a guy calling himself 1911Tuner, who also posts here: http://www.m1911.org/technic20.htm

JohnZone4Doe · February 10, 2013, 08:33 PM

Well I got to go out and test fire this thing right beside our Colt Government Model Series 80 and I have to say..I LOVE IT..The trigger is lighter than any of my handguns,the recoil was manageable and overall it feels as if it belongs in my hands.Don't get me wrong I love the Colt but there is something about this gun that screams keep me close..Now when I have to leave the house this is coming out with me and I am leaving the Beretta 92 with my wife seeing as how she is more familiar with it and a damn good shot as well.

jmstr · February 10, 2013, 10:59 PM

The Sistema is a gun made on Colt equipment, by Colt-trained manufacturers, in Argentina. It's recognized as about the closest to a colt you can get, and not be a colt. Or so I've read repeatedly.

I have one. I've modified it HEAVILY. All EGW parts [except extractor] with an aftermarket slide and Springfield barrel [used, but fit to frame/slide.

It is now really smooth in my hands and very accurate. My Caspian custom build is more accurate, but my Sistema is right up there with it.

I know I've ruined it's collectors value. I bought it to shoot, not collect, so I am happy with it.

They can be great guns, and you can do about anything to most of their frames that you would to a Colt frame.

February 8, 2013, 11:45 PM	#6
sandbag Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2008 Posts: 642	Reliable But.... I have had one for years-it's got a heavier spring and a full length guide rod(of no real use) and it never misses a beat-BUT is has a 10 lb trigger that can't be improved much if at all-it's fun to shoot if you don't care about tight groups

February 8, 2013, 11:55 PM	#8
JohnZone4Doe Junior Member Join Date: February 8, 2013 Posts: 7	Heavy Trigger Someone must have done some work to this gun because the trigger pull is none existent..I barely have to pull the trigger and the hammer drops.The spring is nice and strong and I am loving the way it feels in my hand.Does anyone know if I will be able to put a different barrel on this bad boy without any issues?Thanks for all your feedback..And I know the picture is a bad one but it doesn't do this gun justice in person the OD Green actually looks better than I thought it would and is not rusty or pitted..Since it is so old I would like to try out a new barrel and keep the original stored away..

February 9, 2013, 12:28 PM	#13
Chesster Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2007 Location: Dixie Posts: 2,538	I have had a couple over the years and the only problems I had was the mags that came with them. Replaced with some GI marked mags and they functioned flawlessly with ball ammo. __________________ Chesster Proud NDN "The American Idle" Vote 'Pro-Choice' on 2nd Amendment issues!!!

February 9, 2013, 02:48 PM	#14
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	I would not swap the barrel until you fire it. No need to fix what is not broken. My Sist Colt's barrel still has a lot of life in it. __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

February 10, 2013, 12:46 AM	#16
JohnZone4Doe Junior Member Join Date: February 8, 2013 Posts: 7	1911 I am new to this forum and I just wanted to say to all of you thanks for your input,you all have been extremely helpful.Tomorrow is my birthday so I am taking the kids and going to go out to visit with my parents and maybe me and my dad can go out and test this thing out and shoot the Colt Government Model Series 80 I just got him and see how they compare against each other.I will further evaluate it from there.All in all I am loving the way this thing feels in my hand and overall I am very satisfied and think this could become my bedside gun.Thanks again for your responses.

February 8, 2013, 10:53 PM	#2
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	Has the gun been refinished? It looks very green to me. Grips are clearly not original. If it has been refinished in some sort of green duracoat is has been reduced to a sub $400 shooter IMHO. The gun should look something like this.... __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

February 8, 2013, 11:06 PM	#3
JohnZone4Doe Junior Member Join Date: February 8, 2013 Posts: 7	RE: Yes it was refinished some time go..I just bought it off someone today for real decent price and immediately after took it to a gun store for inspection,the owner of the gun store said it was worth more than I paid for it but I was more concerned about it's history,reliability,quality etc I didn't mean to put value sorry about that.Will i have any problems with 230 grain M1911 ball ammo?Is it a good shooter?Thanks for your input Last edited by JohnZone4Doe; February 10, 2013 at 10:59 PM.

February 8, 2013, 11:13 PM	#4
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	Numbers Produced at FMAP Rosario and Serial #â€™s, 1945-1966 1945 - 6,000 - #24,001 - #30,000 1946 - 7,628 - #30,001 - #37,628 1947 - 5,000 - #37,629 - #42,628 1948 - 7,000 - #42,629 - #49,628 1949 - 5,000 - #49,629 - #54,628 The gun was made in 1948 based on the serial number. It will fire ball ammo with a good GI spec mag if it has not been shot out or poorly modified. It may also fire JHP and Semi-wad cutters depending on type. If it has not been buggered with it should shoot as well as any other 1911A1 of similar vintage. With these older guns there are no hard and fast rules. There are too many variables. Get good mags and shoot it. The gun itself will tell you more than anyone on the internet can.... Mine shoots ball ammo like it should. It is not as accurate as my Colt 70 repro or my Les Baer but at combat ranges it more than does the job and if I had to I would have no problem defending my life with mine. __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

February 8, 2013, 11:38 PM	#5
JohnZone4Doe Junior Member Join Date: February 8, 2013 Posts: 7	RE: WVsig Thanks for the info..So i Take it you are satisfied with yours?I have a Colt Government Model Series 80 and I love it..After handling this gun I am loving the way it feels in my hand.I was thinking about getting a new barrel for it will aftermarket 1911 45 barrels work in this gun as well?The guy I got it from said he had no problem shooting hollow points through it but I have yet to test that out myself.Do you know any other history on these particular guns?I read in some other forum that they were manufactured for the Argentina Police & Military I was just wondering because I have seen other models like these without the Coat Of Arms on them

February 8, 2013, 11:50 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There were different markings, not all had the crest. Also at one time Argentine law required that the crest be ground off guns when they were sold by the government; that was later changed, so you can see guns with a ground crest and guns with an intact crest, depending on when the gun was sold. Jim

February 9, 2013, 12:11 AM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Basically, it is a Colt Government Model, so any parts for that gun or its military versions will interchange. Jim

February 9, 2013, 12:22 AM	#10
JohnZone4Doe Junior Member Join Date: February 8, 2013 Posts: 7	Does anyone know where I can get a quality replacement barrel for a low price?Working on a budget seeing as how I have other projects going on..

February 9, 2013, 11:57 AM	#12
2ndsojourn Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,416	I've had one for years that my dad got back in the late 60's and I never researched it but it's apparently from 1946. (Thanks WV) . But mine has what appears to be standard Colt wood grips. It's got some holster wear around the edges but otherwise real clean. I've taken it to the range a few times and shot a variety of ammo through it and never had a problem. It's my bedside gun.

February 9, 2013, 04:16 PM	#15
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	I have a Sistema Colt made in 1947. I installed a Kart E-Z-Fit barrel, different slide, Bo-Mar sights and a Cylinder & Slide trigger group. Nice four pound trigger pull and it will shoot 4 inch groups at 50 yards. Feeds SWC ammo just fine. I really enjoy shooting it.

February 10, 2013, 10:04 AM	#17
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	Here's how to fix your trigger, courtesy of the M1911.ORG Pistols Organization and a guy calling himself 1911Tuner, who also posts here: http://www.m1911.org/technic20.htm

February 10, 2013, 08:33 PM	#18
JohnZone4Doe Junior Member Join Date: February 8, 2013 Posts: 7	Just got out and put some rounds through my 1911 Well I got to go out and test fire this thing right beside our Colt Government Model Series 80 and I have to say..I LOVE IT..The trigger is lighter than any of my handguns,the recoil was manageable and overall it feels as if it belongs in my hands.Don't get me wrong I love the Colt but there is something about this gun that screams keep me close..Now when I have to leave the house this is coming out with me and I am leaving the Beretta 92 with my wife seeing as how she is more familiar with it and a damn good shot as well.

February 10, 2013, 10:59 PM	#19
jmstr Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA Posts: 1,281	The Sistema is a gun made on Colt equipment, by Colt-trained manufacturers, in Argentina. It's recognized as about the closest to a colt you can get, and not be a colt. Or so I've read repeatedly. I have one. I've modified it HEAVILY. All EGW parts [except extractor] with an aftermarket slide and Springfield barrel [used, but fit to frame/slide. It is now really smooth in my hands and very accurate. My Caspian custom build is more accurate, but my Sistema is right up there with it. I know I've ruined it's collectors value. I bought it to shoot, not collect, so I am happy with it. They can be great guns, and you can do about anything to most of their frames that you would to a Colt frame.