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Old January 24, 2013, 09:54 PM   #26
Texas Range Ammo
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Reading what ?

after looking at your question, and all the replies.

The replies are great.

My question is ? What ? are you or were you reading ???

the internet ?

Generally speaking,,, there are great books available to explain answers to such questions,, but wikipedia and the internet can be lacking on accurate firearms related info.
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Old January 24, 2013, 10:49 PM   #27
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Does this mean that .30 Caliber, 30-30, and 30-06 are all .308" rounds fired out of different casings for different purposes?
When 30-30 was developed it still used the black powder system for designation. 30cal bullet on 30gr of powder, but smokless instead of black. 30-06 designation comes from 30cal bullet developed in 1906.

Both utilize a .308in bullet. The 30-30 uses blunt tip bullets,traditionally, and rimmed cases due to tubular magazines. The 30-06 uses a spitzer bullet (pointy tip) and rimless case because it was developed for range, accuracy, and function for bolt action rifles.
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Old January 27, 2013, 05:18 PM   #28
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Early in WWII, our War Dept. had an uncharacteristic moment of insight. They realised that:
1) there were a lot of guys who were not front line combat troops.
2) these guys did need to be armed. Traditionally this meant the 1911A1 pistol, rather than a combat rifle.
3) They were not going to have the time, nor the ability to make most of these guys decent pistol shots.
4) a light carbine, with neither the power nor the range of the main combat rifle would fill the bill, giving supply and support troops something that they could actually use effectively at short ranges, on those rare occassions when they needed to.

The result was the M1 .30 caliber carbine. It was never intended to be a combat rifle, however, when the combat troops got their hands on them, and found a rifle that only weighed about 2/3 what the M1 Garand did, held 15 shots, as opposed to the 5 of the Springfield, or 8 of the Garand, and performed tollerably well at close ranges where most of their combat was happening anyway, they used everyone that they could get their hands on.
Lighter and more range than the Tommygun, too, if not the knockdown power...

later 30 rnd mags just made the carbine even better.

The .30 Carbine round is approximately equal to the .357 Magnum pistol round, except that it cannot be used with heavier bullets than the 110gr standard. From a sporting perspective, the .357 in a carbine is more effective, but the carbine round, with soft point bullets will suffice for deer at close range. Compared to other ".30 caliber" rounds the .30 Carbine is the least powerful, and not as good a choice for hunting, for a variety of other reasons as well.

The only thing the carbine round has in common with the .30-30 or the .30-06 is the diameter of the bullets. Bullet length, weight, and velocity is much greater with the larger .30 caliber rounds.

The .380ACP (9mm Kurz) the 9mm Luger, and the 9x21, 9x23, 9mm Largo, 9mm Glisenti, (and some others not mentioned) all use the same 9mm diameter bullets, but the different size cases deliver them at different speeds. The .38 Special and .357 Magnum use .35 cal bullets (.358 vs the .355" for 9mms), but again, case size and pressures deliver vastly differing results.

Other than a single model of the Ruger Blackhawk, and single shot barrels for Contenders (and a single long defunct attempt at a semi auto) and the slightly successful Automag III auto pistol (also now long gone), nobody has ever put the .30 carbine round into any gun design that wasn't a variation of the M1 Carbine design. Its a nice piece of history, great fun to shoot, and does have some limited practical uses, but its not a general use rifle, and was never meant to be.
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
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Old February 1, 2013, 01:51 PM   #29
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30/30 is a good brush gun....closer ranges than a 30.06. 30.06 is a reach out and "touch" somthing type caliber...can accomodate a heavier weight bullet than a 30/30 and has far more velocity grain for grain
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Old February 1, 2013, 08:49 PM   #30
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44 AMP:
Your reply is amazing, and thanks for taking the time!
There is a paradox to seeking knowledge... When one lacks knowledge, they cannot recognize what is valuable to learn, because they don't know it.
You definitely shared the wisdom I was seeking, and it will enable me to seek further information optimally.
Thank you much!
The great-grandson of Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen.
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Old February 2, 2013, 01:50 PM   #31
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You are welcome, Biff. When you help with anything else, just ask. Lots of good people on the forum, with a vast range of experience. And glad to give you way more information (usually) than you need!
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
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Old February 7, 2013, 04:13 AM   #32
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I didnt read all the replies so someone may have already said this.
A "caliber" is 1/100th of an inch and is a unit of measurement. so a .25 caliber bullet is 1/4 of an inch and a .50 caliber bullet is 1/2 of an inch and a 1.00 caliber would be one inch. However calibers in cartridge NAMES are usually rounded like the .38 Special actually uses a .357 diameter (caliber) bullet. "30 caliber" generally means a cartridge plugged with .308 caliber bullet. Whether it be a .300 Weatherby or a .30 carbine .308 is usually the ACTUAL bullet diameter. Almost all calibers are rounded to some extent, like .270 Winchester is actually .277. .260 Remington is actually .264. Some are more truthful like the .284 Winchester or the .500 S&W. I saw some good replies on the history and origin of both the 30-06 and .30 carbine so I'll not delve into that. I sure hope this doesnt make things more complicated! Welcome to the rifle world.
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Old February 20, 2013, 06:43 PM   #33
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new rifle man

all the information was right on. but the most important is knowing what round is used in that rifle. the different grain sizes are the weight of the bullet, and it can differ by the propellent used in the round. the modern bullets you buy in 20 round packages by law will have the velocity the round is traveling at different yards. The military surplus rounds will come packaged differently, maybe 48 round box or a clothbandolier. usually the date of manufacturer will appear next to the primer. and packaging some will have corrosive on the box. If you shoot it wash your barrel with a mixture of dawn/alcohaul/ water soapy patch. I run the patch several times changing with a fresh patch each time. dry it with a patch run hoppies and a oil patch to store. I just say this due to the M-1 you mentioned. I think you will like your rifle be safe and shoot clean Sunny
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Old February 22, 2013, 04:58 PM   #34
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All or most of the information given is very good, but there is another way to look at it. The M1 .30 Carbine was supposed to replace the .45acp handgun in WWII, but it never did. I have always thought of the .30 Carbine as being a handgun load in a small rifle, sort of like shooting .357 mag in a levergun. The .30 Carbine should not be viewed as a deer rifle, although I am sure it has taken deer, but rather a general purpose personal defense, plinking and varmint gun. Lots of fun on coyotes, especially with a 30 rnd. mag.
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Old February 22, 2013, 10:10 PM   #35
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Ok, I've recently inherited an M-1 30 Caliber...
Being a handgun guy, and never had a rifle before, I've done hours of research to find out how the .30 Caliber round relates to 30-30 and 30-06.
Kinda happy to see that a number of you dealt with the often abused "Caliber".
Too often we see that word used when "cartridge" is what is meant.
.30 caliber rounds....A quick check in Cartridges of the World shows at least 40 different cartridges all of which are .30 caliber rounds. (Not even counting the wildcats developed by Elgin Gates).
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Old February 23, 2013, 10:55 AM   #36
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You can kill anything with a 30-30 out to approx 150 yards or so with plain factory ammo. Need more reach? A larger case cartridge will do the job nicely. Many to choose from and they all do the job.

Fire up the grill! Deer hunting IS NOT catch and release.
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