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Old January 21, 2013, 11:19 AM   #26
Bob Wright
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My point is, you fired two or three shots from one box of cartridges. How do you know that the next round won't fly off the paper? The accuracy of a brand of ammunition is not determined by two shots, but by the consistancy of that box. A ten round group will give you a better idea of what to expect from that box. Better still, fire several ten round groups to get the degree of relative accuracy.

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Old January 21, 2013, 05:53 PM   #27
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Stats compiled and analyzed by people smarter than us have rather conclusively proven that the accuracy of any gun/ammo combination is reliably measured starting at 20 shots, preferably 24 to 30.

Why do you think that the NRA has used 5 consecutive 5-round groups for decades?

There is even a statistical rule of thumb on 3-round groups are on average X smaller than 5-round groups, etc. Just looked at it last week, and pretty much ANY 1-inch group at 3 or 5 shots will probably never be more than 2 inches if fired in 10- or 20-round groups. Just multiply up to your reference group size.

In a rather modern 9mm semiauto a week or two ago, the less expensive Hornady bullets groups 1/3 the size of the more expensive Sierra bullets at 50 yards.

It all depends on how you measure "quality". Many of the cops at the North Hollywood shootout had handguns capable of 50-yard head shots, but the combination of lack of training/familiarity at that distance, and the pressures of trying to carefully aim without attracting fire, as I understand it led to very few attempted head shots at distance, despite the criminals casually moving about at a leisurely pace most of the time.
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Old January 21, 2013, 06:20 PM   #28
Roland Thunder
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Originally Posted by rayway
So pretty confusing.
Do not follow where the path may lead, go, instead where there is no path and leave a trail - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Old January 21, 2013, 07:51 PM   #29
serf 'rett
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Bob Wright:
I load my own ammunition to customize my load to my shooting requirements. It is no more accurate than I can buy, but neither can I buy a more accurate round than I can load.
I guess I have not found the right store bought ammo yet, because my reloads, tuned to my pistols, are definitely more accurate than anything that I've pick up off the store shelf - especially some of the hopped up self-defense loads which my pistols like to scatter about the paper.

I found it interesting that higher priced cartridges did not equate to better accuracy. The pistol either "likes" or "dislikes" the round/load. I will add that consistency is an important part of the equation.
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Old January 22, 2013, 12:25 AM   #30
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My point is, you fired two or three shots from one box of cartridges. How do you know that the next round won't fly off the paper?
There's no guarantee of that even if you fire 49 shots from one box. The next one could still go off the paper.

However, you are correct that the more ammo tested from a particular batch/box/lot/brand, the more confident that you can be that the results are actually representative of the ammunition in question.

These brands of ammo were all brands that I had shot before to establish that they are reasonably consistent. This group was to show that they all shot to the same point of aim and that they weren't significantly different in accuracy from each other. I actually fired several groups at the range that day using this method and all were pretty similar. Therefore, I only took a picture of this one.
A ten round group will give you a better idea of what to expect from that box. Better still, fire several ten round groups to get the degree of relative accuracy.
And when you do this with reasonable quality factory ammunition, what sort of variance do you see from one box/brand of ammo to the other? I see very little. So little that the average shooter will never notice the difference. Not in accuracy nor in point of aim (as long as the same bullet weight is used and the power level is reasonably similar).
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Old January 24, 2013, 04:24 PM   #31
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I guess I can agree with the OP, I only shoot one bullet weight in any handgun caliber I shoot. 9mm = 147 grain, 45 auto = 230 grain, 357 = 158 grain, 44 mag 240 grain.

I have not really noticed any difference in accuracy between major brands of target ammunition, I don't shoot Tula and some of the other "cheap" stuff in my handguns.
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Old January 29, 2013, 08:48 PM   #32
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I agree whole heartedly with post #15
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