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Old December 26, 2012, 05:09 PM   #26
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With no training I really think the pump is the best home defense weapon. No jams to worry about, and I mean come on, racking the pump really isnt a difficult thing to wrap your head around. I would take a pump shotgun over any handgun as well for HD purposes
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Old December 26, 2012, 06:45 PM   #27
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"No jams to worry about"

They all "jam."
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Old December 26, 2012, 07:13 PM   #28
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I theory the pump. In actual practice the semi will be more reliable. Most problems are caused by operator error and that is less likely with a semi.

If I had to survive in the wilderness for years with only one gun it would be the pump. It can take more abuse and still work with poor quality ammo. But is a stessful SD situation in normal situations I'd take the semi auto.
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Old December 26, 2012, 07:43 PM   #29
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Can get yourself a more severe jam w a pump as well.
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Old December 27, 2012, 04:27 PM   #30
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May I second the suggestion...for the woman to go with a Stoeger Coach double barrel shotgun. Check out the low-recoiling 12 gauge Aguila minishot shells. It has a short barrel...which makes it less likely for an intruder to grab it.
No sound is probably more terrifying to a home intruder, than to hear the rack-an-shuck of a pump action shotgun. I would shy away from the semi auto shotgun. Make sure she wears hearing protection, in case she lights one off in the bedroom --- cuz shotgun blasts are awfully loud in enclosed spaces.

If she prefers a pump...teach her to rack the action during recoil. Live-fire training should be mandatory. Get Matt Burkett's Shotgun Mastery dvd.
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Old December 28, 2012, 08:47 PM   #31
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I've got to agree with the point made earlier that if you're not willing or able to devote the necessary time to becoming proficient with the gun and knowledgeable of self-defense, then a gun is probably not for you.

As someone also said, snap caps are relatively inexpensive and a great way to get comfortable with the operation of the gun. I learned all my manual of arms using snap caps, and continue to train with them on a regular basis. I use live ammo to validate my practice.

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Old December 28, 2012, 09:30 PM   #32
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If training is not part of the program, get a dog and a can of bear spray- SERIOUSLY
Not everyone needs or should have a gun for SD
I wouldn't buy my wife a Vette and then have her drive at Daytona without the requisite training because she is not prepared to o it safely. Same with guns
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Old December 28, 2012, 11:28 PM   #33
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With no training I really think the pump is the best home defense weapon. No jams to worry about, and I mean come on, racking the pump really isnt a difficult thing to wrap your head around.
Hell, I've seen guys short shucking pumps while bird or rabbit hunting. Couldn't imagine them in a HD situation.
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Old December 29, 2012, 08:01 PM   #34
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Exactly, saying pump cannot malf is poor advice and could get someone killed.
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Old December 31, 2012, 08:37 PM   #35
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I'm just learning about shotguns, too....

But I would never suggest that a person (like this one) get a dog for protection. I'd suggest that almost any gun combined with a marginally trained person is safer than a protection dog.

Dogs are alive and active in / around the house all day (not tucked under your mattress or in a safe). If the mailman, UPS, meter reader or the neighbor's kid arrives, would you trust that your doberman will decipher friend from foe?

With dogs, there is always the "oh I forget to put him in the pen.." moment at just the wrong time.

Guns, of any type, stay put.... and don't do anything until you do.
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Old January 9, 2013, 06:02 AM   #36
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12ga Stoger coach gun(home defense version)...

Of the 2 common formats; auto vs pump action, I'd lean towards the pump action. A few top US instructors like Massad Ayoob, Louis Ayelbuck(check spelling) & John Farnam have guides and videos for defense training with pump shotguns. A couple(man & woman) could learn the basic drills with a well made pump action. The semi auto style seems better suited for SWAT or estate security type functions.
If a woman(wife-girlfriend) can't or won't learn to use a full scale 500 or 870 model pump, maybe a simple 12ga sideXside or O/U defense shotgun could work. Stoger puts out a "tactical" type with 1913 rails on it for lasers/white lights.
Someone could train to operate a coach gun even under stress. A white light would be a smart add-on to prevent ADs or mistaken IDs.

New low recoil LE/defense shotgun rounds are out there too.
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Old January 9, 2013, 09:33 AM   #37
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Practice makes perfect.
Not quite...

PERFECT practice makes perfect, which is why a newbie should take a lesson or three to learn the right way to go from the beginning. Otherwise, they will ingrain bad habits that have to be unlearned. If these folks aren't going to practice at all, then lessons would be a great but likely not happening scenario in this case. That just sounds like a bad outcome waiting to happen, IMO.
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Old January 9, 2013, 09:59 AM   #38
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Id rsther pull the trigger 5 or 6 times wo pumping in between myself. Kinda the difference between a single action handgun or a dao only in my book. RR
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Old January 9, 2013, 10:08 AM   #39
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I agree with BigD to an extent but will profess that ANY practice that makes you proficient with your weapon is better than none...

For instance, i am not formally trained unless circa 1970's Soldier of Fortune and Field and Stream magazine articles count...

But being a po' folk redneck with caring parents and grand parents to lead me best they could, I learned to make best use of my ammo for practice and hunting...

No such thing as "bustin' off a few rounds for the heck of it..."... I am rife with fundamental flaws and bad habits that would likely make a truly trained gunman cringe or worse...

But I do make the lead fall on the right target pretty much routinely...

One of my worst known flaws is in use of the trigger hand and finger... Having grown up on borrowed guns much of the time and these being owned by average or taller men when I was a super small boy for my age, my grip placement is far from precise as is where I place my finger on the trigger... Even with the same gun of mine and during same session, my hand and finger are all over the place...

Sometimes I "pull" the trigger, sometimes I "squeeze" it while other times I just "snap it off the sear"...

One bad habit that must be avoided or corrected is the "flinch factor"... It WILL cause missed shots and under duress can get your still beating heart handed to you...

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Old January 11, 2013, 11:35 PM   #40
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It sounds to me that they would be better served with a service pistol like a Model 10 or Glock 19.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Old January 12, 2013, 05:50 AM   #41
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I agree with the others who suggested a coach gun or double action revolver.

IMO a beginer would likely short stoke a pump more than a good semi with tested buckshot would jam.
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Old January 14, 2013, 07:22 PM   #42
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topic over:

you welcome.
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