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Old October 3, 2012, 08:13 AM   #1
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Rifle Hunting in Different Areas of the USA

I've got to go out west (Wyoming) only once in my life. The rest has all been in Wisconsin's woods or marshes. But I have noticed a huge difference in hunting between the eastern and western parts of the USA.

I'm looking for your comments on this.

My comments:

Eastern hunting.
I've found in Wisconsin that to avoid the crowds on public hunting you have to go far off the beaten path in a LARGE area (example; Nicolet National Forest) or you'll be looking at lot's of blaze orange. And in this type of situation (public hunting) I've always done better stalking then sitting in a blind.

On private land we've had better luck sitting in blinds as the deer tend to follow their normal "routines" when not pushed. Shots are close, quick and there is no time to evaluate the deer like they show on the TV shows (hunting tame deer on game farms). I would assume these opinions would apply for most of the eastern hunting, north and south.

Western hunting.
As I said, I've only been out west once (got my muley) but the hunting is a whole different challenge. You need to be ready for long shots but you also get more time to evaluate your target and set up a good shot.

Both types of hunting are very enjoyable and I hope someday before I die I can get out west again for an Elk hunt. It's on my bucket list!

Your comments please!!
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Old October 3, 2012, 09:48 AM   #2
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There are quick and close shots out here too. Hunting a burn or meadow, you've got a good shot at a 350-400 yard opportunity with most being 250-300. If you're hunting the old growth timber, you could be shooting quick and not have time to evaluate as you've said. I've killed elk from 50-350 yards with most toward the lower end. My mule deer was at 150. Bow hunters are successful out here, so you can get close, but by the time rifle season comes around, you have to be ready to take longer shots, as the animals have been pushed and shot at a lot.

If you do want to hunt elk, come on out and hunt elk. NM only draws bull tags for out of staters now, but CO has pretty easy requirements, other than the money, for hunting elk. Check out Wyoming speed goats as well. That's the best meat on 4 feet in America, in my opinion.
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Old October 3, 2012, 10:32 AM   #3
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There is lots of road hunting where I hunt deer here in CA. The property is mostly owned by private timber companies so they have roads everywhere it seems. It's pretty rare to see someone out walking/still hunting due to dry conditions as we are hunting in September but you'll see the occational "natural" ground blind every so often.

I have been very lucky in that I have gotten to hunt Utah and Colorado for either deer or elk over the last 30 years. Everything in those states was/is walk, walk, and more walk, but I still love it and look forward to this years trip like it is my first.
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Old October 3, 2012, 10:50 AM   #4
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We hunt a lot of swamps and bays with thick cover. Most shooting lanes are cut in with feeders around. There are also large tracts of pines and timber planted in straight rows that allow longer shot. Then we have bean/corn fields or power line right of ways that allow longer shooting. Typical shots are 100-200 yards from elevated stands where anything can be taken responsibly from a .243 on up.

I'm so use to hunting thick cover that when I get into an area that allows a longer sighting distance it throws me for a little while. You go from picking out that horizontal patch of brown in a thicket to seeing for what seems like miles.

I'd love the opportunity to take a western trip someday but, the trip to Costa Rica for some fishing is first.
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Old October 3, 2012, 01:50 PM   #5
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I have hunted all over the US and even went to Africa once.

Generally speaking the eastern states are closer range and western states are long range. Now there are lots of exceptions, there are places here in Idaho where the forests and river areas are pretty thick and hunting is often less than 100 yards.

I hunted Hogs in Mississippi a few years back and I can tell you that having a high power scope would hinder you hunting. Down there many people used Shot guns and big bore lever actions. If you where to take the same guns out here to southern Idaho you would have to be really good to stalk up to an animal in an area where there is literally nothing to hide behind for miles and miles. In the Owhyees (south west of Boise Idaho) there is lots of pretty flat land with no plants higher than 2-3 inches tall for as far as the eye can see in any direction.
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Old October 4, 2012, 09:30 AM   #6
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'The West' is a pretty big area
Yeah, there are a bunch of vast open areas, but there is a bunch of tight timber as well. For the last 20 years I've lived in N. Idaho and around here 150 yards is a long shot. When I lived in western New Mexico there were some shots that were out to 300 yards or so, but to be honest, all the mulies I shot in NM were within about 175 yards or so.
Public land out here can get pretty crowed these days - make no mistake. A hunter can hike way back there for his elk, far from the madding crowd, but he better think about how he's gonna get it out of there.
I am fortunate in that my hunting partner and I have exclusive access to over 600 acres of private land that borders Nat. Forest and timber company land. Lots of animals, but it is thick - t-h-i-c-k.
More and more elk are becoming creatures of the deep woods. You can find them in the nice, scenic open park lands, but after the first few days of the season they mostly hit the timber and stay there.
If you can afford a guided hunt in Wyoming, Colorado, Montana, Idaho or New Mexico power to you. You'll more than likely get into the elk. If you plan a DIY hunt it will be a lot like deer hunting back home - you go to a place where there are hopefully some elk and you hope you find them. Buy a cow call and learn how to use it. Bring the rifle you are comfortable with and can shoot well. Around here the locals shoot elk with everything from .243 and 30-30 all the way up to .375 H&H and .458 Win. They all kill elk, deer, moose and bear.
I must say that during the two years I lived in Pennsylvania I saw more deer and black bears than anywhere else I've lived - which includes Idaho, Oregon, California, Montana, Washington and Montana.
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Old October 4, 2012, 03:32 PM   #7
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In the Florida Panhandle, there were a few places I may have been able to get a 100-125 yard shot. But, that involved swamp, primarily.

Most of the non-swampy areas I hunted provided a 25-30 yard shot, at best. The only real exception, was an area of new-growth pine, where a tree stand about 20 feet up one of the old-growth trees on the edge would have given a 75-100 yard view.

Out West, we've got it all.
Thick stuff.
Open areas.
"Dark nasties."

Some people, like KraigWY, are lucky enough to be able to hunt areas where there are Elk in the open, or even in the sage brush, for much of the season.
Others, like myself, prefer to, or must, hunt them in the trees.

When I go Elk hunting, I usually take a minimum of 3 rifles:
1. Close-range "brush gun" with iron sights for the thick stuff.
Used for thick stands of Quakies, scrub Oak, etc.

2. Long-range scoped rifle for open or thinner areas.
Thinner parts of the forest, linked meadows with a long shooting lane, or locations that provide a good vantage point over a valley can really make use of a good long-range rig.

3. Intermediate-range rifle for pushing through the "dark nasties", but also appropriate for the longer shots in between.
The deep, dark, nasty hovels are usually surrounded by areas a with trees a little more dispersed. I like to have something that will serve 'double duty'.

Opening day of the rifle season, you might see a few hunters get lucky with shots at Elk in the open. But, after that, they retreat and seek shelter in the thick stuff or "dark nasties."
From then on, you have two choices:
1) Sit and wait for other hunters to push them to you (might take a while, in some areas).
Or, 2) Find the Elk.

95% of the time, I choose option 2: Hike. Hike some more. Hike even more. And, keep hiking until I find the Elk.
We camp in a 5-mile wide bowl, at the end of a dead-end jeep trail where we're usually 6.25 miles from the nearest maintained (dirt) road, 8.3 miles from the nearest paved road, 4.5 miles from the nearest camp, and there's nearly no one else hunting the area.
There's so much blow-down timber in the trees, that movement is measured in hundreds of yards per hour, rather than miles.

This year, I'm feeling ambitious. I'm planning to hike the bowl's rim to the tallest peak in the area (just a little guy at 9,400 ft), then push back to camp right through the nasty, thick bottom. Round trip: 7.2 miles.

The overall view makes it look so nice....

But, under the canopy, it looks like this:

You're walking on precariously-perched logs, more than you're walking on the ground.
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Old October 4, 2012, 04:21 PM   #8
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I have hunted a good portion of South Carolina and Georgia, with the exception of the extreme upstate areas. There is a little bit of everything in shooting distance and open area around here. There are planted pine thickets and swamps in which visibility is measured in feet to beanfields and clear cuts that you can't see the end of. There is a fine gun maker fairly close to me that specializes in long range "beanfield" rifles.

I know the expanses of open ground are not in the same context as the west, but I have killed deer with shotguns and 00 buckshot at just a few yards to reaching out a few hundred yards with a 7mm mag.
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Old October 5, 2012, 11:34 PM   #9
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Here in Alabama I have killed 13 deer over the past six seasons. The first was a spike buck at 240 yards with a borrowed 7 mm magnum. Before the next season I acquired my .30-06. I shoot 150 grain Remington Corelokt in it. I have now fired it nine times at deer ranging from 25 to 125 yards and killed nine deer. I have also killed two deer with my .50 caliber muzzleloader shooting a .45 caliber 240 grain sabotted bullet at 30 and 50 yards. I killed one with my crossbow at 30 yards. I passed up a shot at a doe with my pistol at six feet. (I had seen a buck a few minutes earlier and was hoping for a shot at it. If I had seen the buck I would have shot it with the '06.)

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(Luke 22:36 KJV) Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
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Old October 6, 2012, 12:33 AM   #10
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I have lived and hunted all over the west for the last 30+ years. Yes, we have it all: open grassy meadow areas, thick wet Douglas fir forests, dry sage flats, tall mountains covered with aspen and manzanita so thick you end up walking on top of it sometimes, reprod so thick you can be standing 10' away from a buck and not be able to see him, and my favorite, the river gorges surrounded by rimrock table mountains/mesas. I like hunting the open areas, glassing, cruise a while, glass some more, and when you spot your deer you can plan a stalk and go head-to-head against him. I often hike 5-10 miles per day when hunting, I cover a lot of ground because I am looking for deer that move primarily at dawn and dusk and bed most of the day at the base of cliffs in the rimrock, and they are not easy to spot or get close to. Typically, I shoot 300 yds or less, so I don't need a flame-belching behemoth (don't get me wrong, I have owned several, but no more). I am not sure I would enjoy typical stand-hunting; not that I think it's too easy, it's just not my cup of tea.
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Old October 6, 2012, 12:53 AM   #11
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The place where I hunt is neither East or West or maybe it's both.... it is not treeless, not flat (dissected Loess Plains is the term, IIRC) ..... a mix of irrigated row crops, hayfields and pastures. Right about 100 degrees west longitude ... that is supposed to be the line between tallrgass prairies of the wetter east, and the shortgrass of the drier high plains..... shots can be short in the woodlots ond on the creeks, or across a 600 acre hayfield.....

The deer hunting has changed since I was a kid. In the 70's you had to drive up to the Republican river to see a whitetail, and mulies were everywhere. In 1986 I shot a buck with a grey coat, a whitetail rack (one main beam with tines goin' up instead of the mulie's fork and fork again arrangement) outsized ears and a short black tipped tail..... Last fall I did not even see a mule deer in 8 days of hunting. The way we hunt has changed, too. When I was a kid, I hunted with my grandpa, who worked for the county road department. He knew every landowner and every tenant, and they all liked him. He said he had the best job in the world, so long as they did not get a blizzard during the 2nd week of November .... he got to scout 356 days a year, carried his deer rifle in his road grader ( and used it to kill every coyote he saw) .... deer hunting consisted of driving to this or that draw in a pasture where a buck was known to be hanging out and looking for him ..... doing that, I've jumped them out of plum thickets and washouts right uner my feet, and killed them far enough you had to look at a contour map to figure the distance.....

Grampa has passed on, and much of the ground I hunted on as a kid is leased (there are a couple of large "outfitters" that cater to the suburban pay-to-hunt crowd.... I see many more deer hunters than I did as kid (though far fewer pheasant hunters), most of them from out of the area (I'm not a local either, for that matter- and there are darn few locals anymore.... mechanization and falling birthrates have made ghosttowns of most of the small towns down there) ...... The farms have gotten bigger, with fewer people running them. They are far more productive, with center pivot irrigation making 180-220 bushel corn grow where prairie dogs used to compete with cattle for grass.....

I have access to 2 or 3 square miles of ground now ..... all scattered in a dozen or so tracts...... There is a spot an a dry (dry since '93, anyway) creek where I have killed a dozen+ whitetail, at ranges between 15 feet and 460 yards..... you have to be ready for whatever shot presents itself, so specialized equipement will limit you.....

One other thing, which I did not note until I saw deer in other parts of the country: The deer I hunt are bigger than what I have seen back east.... being surrounded by conveneint food sources probably has a lot to do with that.
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Old October 7, 2012, 08:11 AM   #12
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When I used to shoot archery for Bear Archery as a pro I was fortunate enough to see Fred Bear's mounted deer collection. Almost every one of them came from Nebraska. Fred knew where to hunt!

We have huge deer in Wisconsin and the in the last few years (due to the hunters managing their own land) the antlers are catching up to the body size. I think the size also has to do with the winter temperatures and survival. It is common to see field dressed deer weigh well over 200 lbs. here. I've seen some up around 250 lbs. That deer would be over 300 lbs. live weight!

Southern deer (including Texas) are small bodied compared to Wisconsin. It makes those big racks look even bigger.

Right now the biggest bodied whitetails I'm aware of are coming out of Canada (and not just Saskatchewan).
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Old October 7, 2012, 12:00 PM   #13
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When I used to shoot archery for Bear Archery as a pro I was fortunate enough to see Fred Bear's mounted deer collection. Almost every one of them came from Nebraska. Fred knew where to hunt!
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Old October 7, 2012, 12:15 PM   #14
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It is common to see field dressed deer weigh well over 200 lbs. here. I've seen some up around 250 lbs. That deer would be over 300 lbs. live weight!
I remember back in the mid 80's, my brother shot a deer that two grown men and a teenager could not get strung up in the shed...... so they got the bright idea of throwing a rope over a stout branch on the elm in front of the house, with the other end attached to the hitch on a pick-up and hoist him up that way..... the branch was 4 or 5 inches thick, and they found they needed a stouter branch, the hard way.

Not all the deer are huge, but year and a half old bucks are not something you want to try dragging by yourself...... with the good possibility of a shot at a 300 lb. monster, I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that a .223 or .357 out of a carbine is "enough gun for deer". There's a thread right now asking if a .32-20 is enough.......
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Old October 7, 2012, 12:41 PM   #15
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I live and hunt in Idaho. Here we have lots of big game if you know where to look.

One thing not typical about where I hunt is that it is heavily forested. Along shot here is 100 yards unless you are hunting recently burned off areas from fires.
Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull.

all 26 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple. Wish my wife did as well...
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Old October 8, 2012, 07:35 AM   #16
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It depends of where and how you hunt in the western states. I've hunted Colorado, Wyoming, South Dakota, Nebraska, and northern California within the forests and foothills. Most of my shots were approx 125 yards or less.

30-30 is a keeper!


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Old October 8, 2012, 09:50 PM   #17
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I would not say long shots are exclusive to the West, but it really depends what type of property you are hunting.

ON AVERAGE, eastern properties are smaller. This dictates shorter shots. For may years the properties I hunted on were 40-80 matter what you did, you could not get a shot over ~300 yards. Currently I hunt on a pretty unique property for the midwest...600's open, I've shot deer at 338 yards with a regular muzzleloader and now have a smokeless muzzleloader set up for 500 yards. Yet, in 2 seasons I have yet to shoot past 150 yards with it.

Out in Montana, I've had a mixed bag. Antelope at 200 and 400 yards...mule deer at ~500 yds and a whitetail at 200 yards. Elk hunting I nearly got a decent bull at only 70 yards but could not get a clear shot through the trees...the next day I anchored that same bull at almost 700 yards.

The terrain you are hunting really dictates the range. It's the smaller properties out east which really tend to eliminate the long range shooting. Heck, both states in which I have resided do not allow most centerfire rifles for deer hunting.
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Old October 9, 2012, 12:06 AM   #18
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I shot my muley in Wyoming (by Devil's Tower btw) at approximately 225 yards. Got him right through the heart. Longest shot I ever got at a whitetail before that (Wisconsin) was 100 yards. And that was in a clearing.
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Old October 10, 2012, 08:42 AM   #19
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I grew up hunting blacktails and Roosevelt elk in western Oregon. Very little flat land and lots of dark old-growth Douglas fir forests snarled with rhodies and sword-ferns. Neither blacktail or elk are 'predictable', so we did a lot of road hunting or stalking. Shooting is 50-150 yards, and the disparity in the size of the blackies and Roosevelts means two very different calibers. Lots of guys used .243 for blacktail and 30-06 at a minimum for the elk. I carried a Model 94.
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Old October 10, 2012, 09:13 AM   #20
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I don't see so m uch difference between where I hunt in NC and where I hunt in Montana as far as shots that are likely to present themselves rifle hunting.

On my lease here I can get shots at deer on the transmission line right of way several hundred yards past where I have any business taking a shot.
And, it is not uncommon to see elk either in a burn or large meadow in Montana way out past my capability.

On the other hand, in either place you can get in cut overs or blow downs where the visibility is practically non existent.
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Old October 12, 2012, 03:46 AM   #21
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I've traveled the West quite a bit but never had the opportunity to hunt it. In the part of Kentucky where I normally hunt (south central, or Soky to us natives) shots can be varied from under your feet to 1000 yards (actually I can think of one place you could theoretically make a shot approaching 2000 yards). I would say the average kill is made at 150 yards or so however. My personal longest is 450 and the shortest 15 or so. The creek and river bottom long shots are countered by the occasional tract of cut timber which is nearly impenetrable after a couple years due to blackberry briars. Believe me, you don't want the hounds to tree a coon in the middle of one of those, it's almost always a slick tree and by the time you get to it your clothes are torn off and you're light headed from the pint of blood you unintentionally marked your trail with. At that point, you curse, cry, and briefly consider shooting the dogs because you realize your journey is only halfway over. But I digress. I avoid that crap for deer because I don't really think deer frequent stuff that thick very much, and I'm granting compassionate reprieve due to mental incompetence to any that do. The "big woods" offer some good hunting and shots up to 100 yards in places.
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Old October 24, 2012, 11:24 PM   #22
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I grew up in Northern Wisconsin and now live in Colorado. Ironically, the first Colorado muley I killed was in heavy timber, within 50 yards, and with the trusty old 30-30 lever gun. Generally speaking though, you will see game in more open country and take longer shots. I've hunted for years in Colorado with a Remmington 700 in 30-06 equiped with a Nikon 3 X 9 Buckmaster. Shots have ranged from 125 to 275 yards. Longer shots avail themselves but I am not confident in my ability to make a lethal shot much above 300 yards under anything but ideal circumstances, and I'm too dang old to chase the critter all over the Rockies.
I have not hunted in Wisconsin for many years but it seemed that the licensing process was much simpler. Deer season was the week of Thanksgiving, you got one tag for a buck, could apply for a special doe tag or "camp permit", and you could buy a bear license if you wanted. Out here, you have to pick a season, pick an area, apply for what you want, strategically manage "preference points", and hope for the best. But our choices are more plentiful, mulies, whitetails, elk, bear, pronghorn. We even have a chance at mountain lions, bighorn sheep, and moose. Plus we have the ultimate reactive targets, prarrie dogs, great dove hunting , and a host of other small game, upland birds, and waterfoul. Also, we have millions of acres of public land to hunt, and while some is crowded, most is not bad.
Hope you get a chance to get out this way for a hunt someday, good luck.
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Old October 26, 2012, 01:02 AM   #23
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I hate those "drawings" for tags out west. Probably what has kept me from only hunting there (by Devil's Tower) once. Why don't they just make so many resident tags available and so many out-of-state tags available and when they're gone they're gone. First come first serve.
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Old October 26, 2012, 03:15 AM   #24
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I hate those "drawings" for tags out west. Probably what has kept me from only hunting there (by Devil's Tower) once. Why don't they just make so many resident tags available and so many out-of-state tags available and when they're gone they're gone. First come first serve.
Because they sell out in 15 minutes state-wide.
If you have other obligations that prevent you from standing in line for 8+ hours to make sure you're at the front of the line... you don't get to hunt, ever. The situation just repeats itself; year, after year, after year....

We use various "lottery" systems because there isn't enough game to go around. In order to keep things as fair as possible, you have to give everyone a chance - not just the people that can camp out the night before, to ensure they get in the front of the line.

Having to apply for all the drawings is a major pain. Not knowing what, or if, you'll draw, is even worse. But, it means the odds of being able to hunt are much more fair for everyone.
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