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Old August 24, 2009, 05:19 PM   #51
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An actual Makarov pistol, also referred to as the PM is a Russian-designed gun... The only countries that made versions of the PM are Russia/USSR, East Germany, Bulgaria, China, and reunified Germany. If it's not from these countries it is not a Makarov pistol.

However, there are a few former Eastern Bloc nations that made pistols chambered for that same 9mm Makarov round... includ(ing) the Hungarian Pa-63, Polish P-64, and the Czech CZ-82. These are often mistakenly referred to Makarov pistols, when in fact the biggest thing they have in common with the PM is they fire the same round and not much else.
100% correct, but I'd like to point out that commercial versions of the original Makarov PM have been marketed as the Imez IJ-70 (aka Baikal; Russian-made) and Norinco Model 59 (Chinese-made). To bring this topic full circle, the IJ-70 also came in a .380ACP version.

There was also a short-lived double-stack version of the IJ-70, but it's not quite as slick for CCW as the original single-stack version due to the notably thicker grip frame.

No Makarov PM-type pistols have been imported to the USA for several years now, so they're somewhat less common than many of the other pistols discussed in this thread.
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Old August 24, 2009, 07:20 PM   #52
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Peejman, the qualifying test must be passed for EACH semi-auto. You only need to pass with one revolver and can then carry any revolver.

So, I need to be able to hit the side of a barn!

.380 ammo here is not spendier than 9mm, but is harder to find.

I shot a baby Glock today (26) and for some reason the brass kept hitting me in the head!!! I think I need something that size though. It's easier to handle than the mouse guns (or is the baby Glock still a mouse gun?)

I can pass the CCW with my XD9 now, and when it comes through, it only takes 3 days to add a new semi, so presumably I'm not in a hurry for my concealed gun.

I have free rentals at a range, so I can try whatever they have.

The guy showed me another sub compact 9mm that I'm going to try next time I'm there.
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Old August 25, 2009, 12:19 AM   #53
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I dont own a 9 mm but have had 2 380's. The first was a sig p230. I sold it for a Glock 27 in 40 cal. Figured the "bigger hole theory" made sense and it was "only a hair wider, a hair longer and a bit heavier. " I still have it and only carry it on a belt holster. Its a hair to big and a hair too wide and heavy really be concealled carry. Concealed to me is not just a long shirt pulled over it. It's hidden to where I can bend over and tie my shoe, remove a jacket, sit anyway I want, stand with my back to a crowd in a bar and NOTHING is seen. No bulge, tip of a holster, loops ,straps, nothing is seen.

So the second 380 is a Colt Mustang Pocketlite. Carry it everywhere and it is small enough to fit anywhere comfortably. Also a locked breach and shoots like nothing compared to the 27. These are not made any more and expensive. They can be found for around $1000. I would buy another if something happened to this one. The sig 238 is a clone of it and would consider one of those too.

Let me qualify this with I carry a Glock 23 all day at work in a duty holster. Sure there are bigger calibers but I have 40 rounds of 40 cal on me and 13 more next to me in the bag, 2 more boxes in the trunk with a m-4 and two shotguns. The little 23 goes everywhere, all day. The other stay in the car, maybe once a month actually are pulled out for a ready use. We also have private range and shoot the 23's often.

So the summary, if you want to carry it, learn to hit with it and go small enough to hide comfortably. No smaller than .380 caliber but small in size. The big guns are hard to hide, even when only 1/2 inch bigger or 1/4 inch wider. I carry the 27 five percent of the time off duty and the Mustang 100 percent. Yes both at once some times, especially when I know something is a little more prone to trouble.
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Old August 25, 2009, 09:53 AM   #54
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its what fits right in ur hand

it has to fit ur hand and the cw40 fits mine i also have a g27 and a p11 my sis in law has a pps in 9mm they r all good guns and i can put the whole mag in a paper plate at 25 but what matters is if ur comfortable with it
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Old August 25, 2009, 11:07 AM   #55
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since the Kel-Tec is hard for me.
What does that mean?
Which Kel Tec have you shot?

The reason I ask is that the P3AT trigger is NOTHING like the (9 mm) P-11.
I understand that the PF-9 trigger is also improved over the P-11 but have no personal experience there.

I'm not exactly pushing Kel Tec.
The P3AT sights are small and the recoil on a small gun is punishing.
But, just throwing out some facts for your consideration.
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Old August 25, 2009, 11:30 AM   #56
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I have both a German Walther PPK/s and a LCP. I'd rather shoot the Walther, I carry the LCP. The LCP recoils near as much as my GP-100 .357, but it conceals very well. I didn't buy it for the range anyway, so a little recoil if need be is nothing in my view. It serves it's purpose well.

A couple weeks ago I walked into my local outdoors store and they had maybe 20-25 boxes of various .380 on the shelf. They also had pretty much all other calibers there as well. I have all I need for now so I passed, but hopefully the ammo shortage is starting to end.

Anyway, threads like this tend to be popularity contests more than anything, hope the OP is able to glean some gems out of it.
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Old August 25, 2009, 11:32 AM   #57
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Another suggestion here for something chambered in 9mm Makarov (a.k.a. 9x18) rather than .380, if you want smaller than the standard 9mm Parabellum.

9x18 is cheaper nowadays than .380, and it's a skosh more powerful.

I've got a PA-63 which is a clone of the Walther PPK... and it's chambered in 9x18. It's a foreign military surplus gun and cost me all of $125. Another $10 got me a second magazine. Ammo runs about $10-$15 per box of 50 depending on where you find it.

There are lots of interesting concealable foreign surplus guns in 9x18. And they all tend to be less than $200.

You're unlikely to find one in Vegas unless you go to a gun show and look for a booth run by J G Sales. They are a large volume gun store in Prescott, AZ, that also travel to a lot of southwest gun shows. They tend to specialize in foreign imported firearms and military surplus ammunition.
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Old August 25, 2009, 03:22 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by kayla View Post
Peejman, the qualifying test must be passed for EACH semi-auto. You only need to pass with one revolver and can then carry any revolver.
That seems less than logical to me, but that's the government for you.

I can pass the CCW with my XD9 now, and when it comes through, it only takes 3 days to add a new semi, so presumably I'm not in a hurry for my concealed gun.
Interesting. I guess the type of pistol is essentially an endorsement on your permit.

At the end of the day, pick a pistol that:

1. Fits your hand.
2. Fits your eye.
3. Fits your budget.

Anything beyond that is fluff IMO. There's so much to choose from it can be hard to narrow it down (I'm working through this with my wife at the moment).

Firearms in general retain their value quite well so if down the road something new comes along that you like better than what you've got, trade up for it.
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Old August 25, 2009, 04:00 PM   #59
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Have u checked out the walther pps & s&w m&p 9c? The walther is comparable to the kahr p9 & the s&w m&p 9c is just a tad bigger than the baby glock G26.
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Old August 25, 2009, 04:02 PM   #60
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Have u checked out the walther pps & s&w m&p 9c? The walther is comparable to the kahr p9 & the s&w m&p 9c is just a tad bigger than the baby glock G26. The m&p 9c has 3 interchangable grip sizes.
Keep it out of the dirt.
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Old August 25, 2009, 06:04 PM   #61
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When dress is minimal (well, minimal for me, I'm a fat old fart) like shorts and a T shirt, the P3AT is the smallest in the safe (other than a pee wee .22 American Arms revolver, that's way too small)and it will certainly fit in a front pocket and be totally invisible.

As fall approaches, I prefer a 9mm like a CZ Rami as heavier clothes make it disappear.

Winter makes it possible to go out with heavy duty stuff, whatever that might be.

My point being, if your going unarmed because your clothing is too skimpy, I guess you had to make a choice. Carry the heaviest stuff you can hide whether it's the best or whatever, in my opinion.
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Old August 25, 2009, 06:39 PM   #62
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I'm narrowing this down some. Though with cooler weather coming, I'm also realizing perhaps my best choice is to stick with my XD9 until next Spring.

But, I have probably ruled out .380s. The ammo cost made me gasp.

I believe I've ruled out the Kel-Tec. I can't seem to shoot it even decently, let alone well.

I am looking at the Kahr P9, but had some problems today that are making me question whether I should rule it out. I had a rental Kahr that was having problems. Something about the magazine is bothering me too. Even before the misfeed (I think it was a misfeed), as I was loading the mag, I thought, "this seems like a misfeed waiting to happen."

The magazine seems cheap. The metal at the top, seems flimsy. And then, I racked the slide and everything got stuck. It didn't leave me with a good impression.

It is possible the gun simply needs some servicing. But I'd like to know what you all think of it.

I am also looking at a Glock 26. But as I mentioned elsewhere, it kept spitting brass at me. That's not entirely a dealbreaker, but I confess it was less than pleasant.
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Old August 25, 2009, 08:53 PM   #63
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May I suggest the Glock 28. I know the .380 ammo costs more and is a little hard to find but I personally think a 9mm is a little heavy for most ladies. Glocks seem to lessen felt recoil. I am, surprise, a big Glock fan. I always say a Glock doesn't "feel right" until you shoot it. I carry all guns with an empty chamber. If you choose to carry this way be sure to practice accordingly.

A Glock 28 will be kinda hard to find but you only need one.

Also IMHO, mouse guns are no fun to shoot and take a lot of practice to become proficient with.

Just my two cents.
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Old August 26, 2009, 10:04 PM   #64
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The Glock "ergonomics" are one of those love 'em or hate 'em things. Me, I am no fan, but I can see how one might grow accustomed. If you do, they are fine pistols at a nice price.

Perhaps consider taking a closer look at a compact, as opposed to sub-compact, pistol, such as the XDC in 9mm instead of the XDSC. I've shot a few compacts, and while they are marginally harder to maintain control over compared to their full-size brethren, they're nowhere near as bad as a sub-compact. You lose some concealability, but gain control.

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Old September 9, 2012, 08:01 AM   #65
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.380 vs 9mm

I own and carry a Bersa Thunder .380 IWB and trust it completely. It is accurate, dependable, and easy to shoot.

I also own and carry a Ruger SR9c 9mm at times, trust it also. Great shooter, nice trigger and 10 & 17 round mags.

My third carry gun is a Bersa Thunder .32 which I also trust.

If you want a pocket gun get a .22 or .32 they are less snappy on recoil than a .380.

If you want to carry IWB I highly recommend the Bersa Thunder .380 and Ruger SR9c 9mm
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Old September 9, 2012, 02:19 PM   #66
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I'd go with a Kel Tec PF9. Its arguably the smallest 9mm on the market and has a 7 round capacity (8 with magazine extender) Mine works perfect. I was in this same debate with myself. .380 ammo is similarly priced to 9mm but signifacantly less powerful, especially out of short barrels.
A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44
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Old September 9, 2012, 02:33 PM   #67
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I pack a HP22 in my back pocket next to my wallet. It depends on the company as to which I pull out.
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Old September 9, 2012, 02:38 PM   #68
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This thread was started in 2009. I'd hope the OP figured it out by now.
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Old September 9, 2012, 02:43 PM   #69
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Go 9mm

Same size gun, more punch with a 9mm. That ought to settle it. Had a KelTec. that was ok. Your preference on the weapon. but probably should go with 9mm, just makes more sense that way. You want max power with max concealment in an auto, that's your best option. and get something with more than 6 round capacity... Otherwise you may as well by a snub nosed airweight .357 magnum.
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Old September 9, 2012, 03:09 PM   #70
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3 year old zombie thread. RIP.
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