Leaving my 1858 New Army pistol loaded [no caps nearby] Should I seal nipple holes?

[bn12gg]

Personal defense =='s 12g, pump, semi auto, s x s, o/u eh, makes
no difference. Job gets done.

Just my .02

[Grant D]

If you going to use a BP pistol you better practice a lot with it,cause after the first shot you won't see anything through the SMOKE!

[Hardy]

Hey, I'm the dunce hat boy on this thread. That's ok. Even dummies can offer something. I load a revolver/cap it and set it at an angle with barrel pointing downward. That way, no oil or residue backs up in the nipples. I change out the caps every two days. Of course I put the old ones in a tin to fire at range. Most of them fire.

WBH

[Hardy]

Oh---I have found that using a nickel wrapped 016 electric guitar string is the best for clearing out nipples. You can but Ernie Ball at music stores for next to nothing.

[sandman_nv]

Quote:
A Remington is a better choice over a Colt until the Colt is tricked out to prevent cap jams.

How would one go about tricking out the Colt to prevent cap jams?

[Bmanowske]

Hardy, you have the thaught correct! with the barrel pointed down for that reason! As for the nickel plated wire, just buy a nipple pick, they will last a long time and only cost $6-$7 dollers, check Cabellas!

Sandman, the main reason for a cap jam is useing #11 caps on #10 nipples, you can replace the nipples with #11 nipples, I would also suggest stainless steel ones due to they are easy to clean and are harder so the won't disform from hamer strikes!

[Powderman]

Sir, I must ask a question....

...and I am doing so from as objective a point of view as I can.

Without trying to sound too empirical, it is sufficient to say:

a. I grew up in one of the most crime ridden areas in the United States.
b. I also, during that time period, was a victim of violent crime. MULTIPLE times.
c. Two of those occasions involved waking up in my own bed, in my own home, (as a teenager) and finding strange people standing less than a foot from me.
d. Trust me on this: If you have ANY notions of being able to go through the complex functions required to partially or completely load a firearm--much less place caps on a BP revolver, or assembling the gun--lose those notions NOW. I can tell you from hard experience that you will NOT be able to do it. In the worst case scenario, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GET TO IT, UNLESS IT IS WITHIN ARM'S REACH.

Thus, my question...

Is there ANY reason why you can not use a modern firearm--pistol, revolver, carbine, rifle, shotgun--for your home defense arm?

[Bmanowske]

Powderman, I share your experiance! After my first occasion of a home intrusion, I was so passive. At that time I had very little experiance with firearms at all, and is one reason I got into them! I don't have any reason not to use any other home protection weapon, infact I have a .40 semi auto on my headboard, and a shotgun at both doors! I also took some hand to hand self-defence classes! I'm 6'2" and 280 lbs. so I know I don't move too fast, but if I get a grip on an intruder (and I have), they will be going to a hospitol first before jail! I know if I didn't do anything I would have been the one going to the ER, or Morgue!
Since then, I moved from El Paso to the woods of Wisconsin, I still keep the protection around, just in case!
As for whomever started this thread, if they are restricted from having a regular firearm, I don't blaim them! Its something, if atleast a heavy piece of iron with a handel they can use as a club, that a "Glock" could never compair to! (weight wise)

[deerslayer303]

Yeah I've been reading this thread from the start. I alway figured the OP wasn't eligible to own a modern firearm ( I could be wrong). Because even if someone has done something wrong in the past (and you don't have to be a murderer to be ineligible to own a firearm) they still have a right to defend themselves IMHO. Heck if I would have been convicted of Criminal Domestic Violence 12 years ago when my ex wife filed an erroneous charge against me, then I wouldn't be eligible to own a modern firearm either. So for someone who for one reason or another can't buy a modern firearm the by all means BP will do. I for one would not want to be hit by that .45 cal slow moving chunk of soft lead I tell you that much. And it will most definately do the job, I believe.

[noelf2]

So for someone who for one reason or another can't buy a modern firearm the by all means BP will do. I for one would not want to be hit by that .45 cal slow moving chunk of soft lead I tell you that much. And it will most definately do the job, I believe.

Not saying that the OP is or isn't eligible to buy a modern firearm. That hasn't been disclosed and I assume the OP is eligible but has decided to go for a BP firearm for some reason only known to him. That said, for a person not eligible to buy a modern firearm (prior felony conviction, etc.), it still isn't lawful for them to have a BP firearm. They certainly could buy one since they aren't considered firearms by the BATFE and aren't restricted as such, but they could get into big trouble after they used it (or if it was discovered that they even had it). One has to make up their own mind regarding lawful possession/use versus self defense, and be ready to face the consequences. Being alive to face consequences could arguably be a positive consequence.

[maillemaker]

[quote]I partly bought this gun for home invasion protection. So, I have loaded it with 30 grains of Pyrodex {Gun is handy on top shelf of bedroom closet, caps are in a nearby suit jacket pocket } - no wads, just powder & ball- and put Cabelas Black Powder Pistol Lube on all the balls= a small amount on the sides as I loaded [tried not to get a bit that would contact powder] and some brushed on the loaded balls with a tiny artist brush.
I don't want the powder to obsorb moisture and fail, so should I seal the nipple holes with a tine bit of the Cabelas lube too?[/b]

Firstly, let me say that a black powder revolver would not be my first choice for a self-defense firearm. For the same price you could easily buy a modern pump-action shotgun that would be far more reliable and powerful.

One of the biggest problems with BP revolvers is cap fragments can and do easily jam the mechanism and prevent the cylinder from turning, which prevents you from firing the weapon.

That said, if I absolutely had to rely on a BP revolver for home defense, I would absolutely place caps on the nipples.

Under no circumstances would I put grease or anything else over the nipples in an attempt to "seal" the chambers. All this is going to do is increase the likelihood of a missfire if the gunk fouls the powder or blocks the gasses from the cap.

My understanding is that unfired black powder and/or Pyrodex does not absorb moisture. It is the fired residue that has issues. In any case if you live in a modern air-conditioned home you aren't likely to have any problems anyway.

But the last thing you want to be trying to do is cap a revolver in an emergency situation.

If the issue is children in the home, I suggest a lockbox of some type to keep the firearm away from little hands. I understand the hesitation to "lock up your guns" but the truth is most of us are unlikely to be victims of crime but if you have children in the house you are very likely to have curious kids fooling around with things they are not supposed to. Once I had kids I put all the guns in a gun "safe". It's not really a safe, just a StackOn gun cabinet, but it keeps the firearms out of kids' reach.

[Hardy]

An 016 nickel wrap guitar string is the best. It cost a dollar or 2 and you can snap it in many short lengths. The inner sting is steel and the outer is nickel wrapped which helps scrub. Make sure you do it gently The nickel wrapping should prevent widening out the gauged nipple holes. I used them because I was a guitar plyer and found some in my case. Just by hap--i tried one when cleaning. I was happy

WBH

[Bmanowske]

Now i understand about the guitar string method! I was thinking about a single filiment piece, thats why I figured the commercial nipple pick would be the way to go! Great advise!!!

[Hardy]

Yeah, In my opinion--which is worth less than 1 red cent-- I have solds c/b pistols for over two years in a retail store and I wish I had a tape recording of all the conversations and advise. But-I don't-- the clearing of nipples is the foremost of having your gun fire!!!! And the 016 guitar string is the best. Try it out on your plinkers before you think it might bugger your good guns. I do not want you coming after me with a rope!
WBH

And also--check the Possible Shop out for their nipples. I do not work for or get paid endosements from them. They are great folks to deal with---Amco nipples-I buy from them

And again/ it costs more to buy from Taylors/ Possible Shop and some others than a large internet site that buy in mass quantaties-w/little or no quality control. Buy from them
WBH agaion

[Hardy]

I mean to clarify---support Taylor & Co/ Traditions and the Possible shop. We DO!

WBH

[Southron]

Wild Bill Hickok had a procedure he followed every day:

First thing in the morning he went out and shot his '51 Navy Revolvers. This did two things [A] Kept him proficient, which, because of his 'Old West' lifestyle, was a necessity & [B] Allowed him to then clean his guns and re-load them with FRESH LOADS. Got it-He reloaded EVERY DAY.

IF I ONLY had a percussion revolver to defend life and homestead, then that would be the procedure I would follow EVERY DAY.

I am fairly good with a pistol but everyone seems to forget what a pistol REALLY IS: A last ditch, personal defense weapon that is used WHEN NO OTHER WEAPON IS AVAILABLE.

IF I ever have a Home Invasion, the criminals are going to meet MR. SHOTGUN !!!

NUF SAID.....

[sandman_nv]

Bmanowske, thanks for that information. A .44 cal '58 Remmy with a Howell conversion cylinder is my current fave, but I have a couple of other pistols that use the caps.

[sandman_nv]

The last post by Southron regarding "Mr. Shotgun" made me think and wonder...

Anybody out there name their weapons? I was thinking of naming mine "Victoria" after my wife.


Also, would a woman be honored or upset to have a weapon named after them?

Was just wondering...

[orangello]

That said, for a person not eligible to buy a modern firearm (prior felony conviction, etc.), it still isn't lawful for them to have a BP firearm. They certainly could buy one since they aren't considered firearms by the BATFE and aren't restricted as such, but they could get into big trouble after they used it (or if it was discovered that they even had it).

I think this varies by jurisdiction. In TN, the state appears to follow the feds description of a "firearm". I believe it is the same in MS.

[Ricklin]

No BP arms for convicted felons in Oregon. They can be bought over the counter tho, and no background check. I was surprised while living in the peoples republic of CA that I could (and did) have Pietta 1858 brought right to the house by the brown truck of happiness.

[Hardy]

I think Southran is right about having a shotgun weapon for home invasion. A B/P arm might misfire no matter how much you love them/know about them ETC ETC> But most misfires are caused by cap failure and nipple clearance. I think the Wild Bill Hickock shootin his guns everyday is correct. I heard he shot cards on his fence post and then sold them in town. But-even in those days, there were no glocks etc and what is ironic he was using navy c/bs when cartridges were available but cartridges were relatively expensive and people in the west didn't have a whole lot of money. A pound of lead/ caps/ and powder was fairly cheap. I bet more people in the late 1870's still carried percussion guns than GUNSMOKE/Bonanza might lead you not to believe

WBH

[Steve499]

How would one go about tricking out the Colt to prevent cap jams?

Increasing the hammer tension is the action which proved to be most effective for me. I added a second hammer spring, piggyback style, made from an old wind up alarm clock mainspring taped to the original spring. My cap jams stopped almost completely after that.

At the moment of ignition, the fired cap can become a piston which propels itself off the nipple, moving the hammer back enough so the cap can come off the nipple and be diverted downward by the inner arc on the hammer to become one of those jams which require breaking the gun down to clear. If the hammer spring is strong enough to resist being pushed rearward, the cap has to remain on the nipple until the gun is cocked for the next shot.

New nipples can be important as erosion of the orifices increases the thrust on the fired cap.

Having a groove or trough on the front of the frame between the hammer channel and the capping notch provides a path for fragments to escape once the hammer is cocked and the fired cap is no longer held captive by the hammer.

As far as home defense goes, BP revolvers can be loaded and stored indefinitely IF, again, IF they are loaded properly!
The chambers must be totally dry, no lube of any kind involved. After all chambers are loaded and capped, in place of lubricant on the balls, melt real beeswax and pour the front of the chambers level full, then drip beeswax over the caps. After the wax cools, scrape any wax off of the back flat of the cap so it doesn't cushion the hammer blow and you're set! I have a cylinder I loaded like that in the late 1980s. I fired one chamber around 1995 and another chamber around 2000. Both worked fine. I still have 4 loaded chambers in that pistol. Hadn't thought about it even, for a few years, but I think it's time to shoot another one! I might just do that tomorrow!

[Hellgate]

Another very simple trick to prevent cap jams is to fill in the safety notch on the hammer face. I have had many cap jams result from the cap getting blown into the safety notch just enough for the hammer to grab it and as the gun is cocked the cap is pulled off the nipple and gets tipped off the hammer face by the recoil shield and it falls into the hammer cutout in the frame preventing the hammer from reaching the nipple on the next strike.

Here's the technique: I thoroughly clean off the hammer face, put the cocked (unloaded) gun in a padded vise hammer face up, make a dam around the hammer face with a bit of masking tape, then daub J B Weld into the hammer notch and let it set overnight. Be sure to use a toothbrush, Dremel SS wire brush or some means of getting the surface clean & shiny. I also hose it with degreaser and then canned air to get the hammer face pristine before taping & applying the J B Weld. After it is set, remove the tape and carefully file away the weld. I clean it off flush with the hammer face and then create a very shallow concavity in the notch keeping all edges smooth. Now you have a smooth flat face of the hammer where the cap can't stick to it, will be held down onto the nipple by the hammer and rotated out of the way when recocked. It takes about 10 minutes and 5 cents worth of materials and has stopped my cap jams. If I knew how to weld or braze I would have filled the safety notch more solidly. Sometimes the weld falls out but it is easy to replace.

The reason for the very slight concavity is to minimize contact with the weld and the nipple so it doesn't get knocked out so easily. If you inspect your fired caps you will see the imprint of the hammer face on the spent cap. Any sharp edges on the notch will catch the caps. I used to think it was always heavy loads & big flash holes causing blowback of the hammer and the cap jam but a couple times I found the cap sticking to the hammer face and filled in the notch and problem solved. The Piettas have too wide of notches and are worse for jams than the ASM Colts. The first guys to suggest filling in the notch were Fingers McGee & Noz.

[sandman_nv]

Thanks Steve and Hellgate.

Good information!

[Hardy]

Here is a good recipe for chamber lube if not using wads.:

Buy a big can of crisco or a brand cheaper. Buy one tube of T17 lube. It comes in a brown toothpaste sqeezable and it is dark blue and thick. Much better than CVA lube.Mix just enough of it with crisco until it looks light SKY blue. Go to Walmart and buy some plastic ketchup /sauce bottles with spout and fill em up.On the range just sqeeze it on top of your loaded bullets. On hot days/ keep it in an ice cooler.Cheap but smells good and probably lubes barrel a bit better than just plain lard!

WBH