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Old April 27, 2011, 10:17 AM   #476
Spats McGee
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I don't think that there's much question about whether George intentionally missed the 25-ft pistol shot. They had just run the clip in which he talks about how Chris was going to pay for college tuition for his kids if he won the $100K, and here he was, just talking about buying lots of guns. Right after they ran that clip, my wife and I both wondered if he was going to take a dive. I also couldn't decide whether Chris was going to be angry about it. I could see that going either way. Clearly, Chris was having an off day at the range, and George wanted to go into the last round with even scores.

As for the Sharps shot, I couldn't tell if that one was intentional or not. George said he'd had trouble with the Sharps all along, so I could believe it was an honest miss. On the other hand, it didn't look like he came anywhere near the target, which I find unusual, so I could alsos believe that he simply decided that Chris needed the money more than he did.

George's treatment of Jamie throughout the season was despicable, and I rather enjoyed disliking him. But missing the pistol shot, at least evening the score going into the last (Sharps) round, . . . I found it harder to dislike him as much. Maybe there's hope for George yet.
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Old April 27, 2011, 11:23 AM   #477
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Chris should not have accepted the win. He did not deserve it.
He still beat gunny, so he was obviously in the top two. So what's the big deal?
George wanted the shot to come down to the sharps. I don't believe he intentionally missed that shot.
It's debatable whether george would have beat chris in the final. However, remember that he put himself out of it on his own terms, so there is no reason to cry foul. The game was played out by the rules of the game, even if the participants had some decision on who went to the final round.
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Old April 27, 2011, 11:41 AM   #478
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Anyone notice any names?

Sara Ahrens Police Training Sergeant
Alex Charvat Engineer/Outdoorsman
Chris Collins Firearms Instructor/Former Marine
Dustin Ellermann Christian Camp Director
Jarrett Grimes Homeland Security
Amanda Hardin Firearms Instructor/Nurse
Mike Hughes Competitive Pistol Shooter
Michael Marelli NY State Court Officer
Paul Marinaccio Detective/Firearms Instructor
Phil Morden Three Gun Competitor
Gary Quesenberry Homeland Security
Billy Rogers Restaurant Operator
Mark Schneider USPSA Competitor/Outdoorsman
Drew Shprintz Firearms Instructor/Bartender
Cliff Walsh Revolver Champion
Jake Zweig Ex Navy SEAL/College Football Coach
Not a single, big-name professional IPSC shooter for season three. I wonder if it's because all the prior ones were sent home early by hunters, golf instructors and swimmers? I've been shooting with Mike Hughes for a few years. As with most of the contestants, calling him a "competitive pistol shooter" doesn't really describe who he is or what he does. He's an interesting guy, and hopefully season three won't play so coy about the shooters' qualifications and abilities.
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Old April 27, 2011, 03:04 PM   #479
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Watched behind the bullet. Seems like they avoided the whole jamie thing?
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Old April 27, 2011, 04:31 PM   #480
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George could have won the title

I believe George could have won the title if he had tried his utmost.But I think hearing what Chris would do with the money to help his family convinced George to perform an act that was selfless,rather than selfish.It was apparent they had become good friends.And in my mind George had proven his marksmanship over the course of the show.Nor would he have given Chris his chance if he didn't think Chris could win.
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Old April 27, 2011, 08:09 PM   #481
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I was also a little suspect of Brian with the Ruger 22. How many shots did he shoot???
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Old April 27, 2011, 08:21 PM   #482
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I was also a little suspect of Brian with the Ruger 22. How many shots did he shoot???
I agree that was a little fishy. No problems on the first 3 and about 20 shots missed on the final two. ??? Would it have been too obvious to miss 1000 yard shots? I'm trying to convince myself that none of these guys would have thrown the match on purpose, but agree that Chris is a bit of a sympathetic figure. And maybe they were still feeling badly about the Jamie thing, who knows. I do think George tried with the Sharps, he just didn't want to go ahead 2-0 and wanted to beat Chris head-to-head.

I was glad that Brian Zins finally got to show off his considerable skills with the pistol and even with the AR after being made to sit out some events he would have aced. I don't think he missed a single plate with the Hi Power, nor did I expect him to. The .44 mag and that big long barrel was child's play. I was disappointed that they decided to put the tomahawk and the bow in there, one or the other would have been enough. How about a shotgun?

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Gunny is only 41?
It's the hair, some of us are prematurely blessed It's actually fun racing and beating adults who look young enough to be your son, I know.

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Old April 27, 2011, 10:50 PM   #483
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Gunny talked about his issues with the 10-22 in the Behind the Bullets episode. He said that for some reason the fading light and the pressure was making him have "tunnel vision" and throwing off his aim somehow. I'm not sure that was all that was going on but I don't really think he would've thrown the competition, he seems too competitive.
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Old April 27, 2011, 11:26 PM   #484
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Lots of Losers.....

Gang of 4 lost audience respect by ganging up on a fellow shooter to further their own chances.

History Channel is a loser....lost control of the show when gang of 4 manipulated the rules to suit their purpose.

Chris is a loser.....will always have a cloud over his title wondering if he won by having the best performance or the best hard luck story.

George is a loser....will always be remembered for his foul mouth, unsportsmanlike performance.

Gunny is a loser.....for tarnishing his reputation by joining the immature antics of the gang of 4.

Shooting Community is a loser.....no role models emerged in the last episode for youngsters to look up to or emulate.

Audience is a loser......for investing time to cheer on examples in the shooting world that the non shooting public could admire and respect.
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Old April 28, 2011, 05:37 AM   #485
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If they do Top Shot next year, they need to cut out any scene that doesn't take place on the shooting range.

When my wife and I watch this show, we wait for it to show up on Comcast On Demand. We fast-forward through any scene that involves chatting, strategizing on voting, people explaining why they hate Kelly or Jamie (or whomever,) or voting. It's an enjoyable 28 minute show that way.
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Old April 28, 2011, 12:14 PM   #486
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While I still think the show is meeting its purposes, those of us who would prefer that the shooting ability of the contestants be weighed more heavily are disappointed. I'm glad others have commented on the ethics of throwing a shot: I'm not comfortable with that.

The undisputed consequence: we do not know who the best all-round shooter is this season. I think good arguments can be made for Brian, Chris R., Jamie, George, and even Joe. I'd put Brian, Jamie, and Chris R. at the top, with an asterisk by Chris R. since he seemed to let pressure get to him at times.

Anyway, still looking forward to Top Shot (Season 3).
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Old April 28, 2011, 02:23 PM   #487
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Here is a conspiracy theory for you to ponder. The gang of 4 decided to split the winnings 4 ways no matter who finished first. This way George could somehow repair his image and they could have the ultimate manipulation of the show.
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Old April 28, 2011, 02:25 PM   #488
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Its a TV show

I know a lot of people think the show would be better if they only showed the contestents shooting targets at the range without the "drama".But it is precisely the drama that makes the show interesting for a lot of people.Without the drama one would have a show about target practice;may as well watch bowling or golf.Without the personal interest there is no story to tell,just technical data to record.
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Old April 28, 2011, 02:32 PM   #489
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I know a lot of people think the show would be better if they only showed the contestents shooting targets at the range without the "drama".But it is precisely the drama that makes the show interesting for a lot of people.Without the drama one would have a show about target practice;may as well watch bowling or golf.Without the personal interest there is no story to tell,just technical data to record.
It is not always necessary to dumb things down for the benefit of the lowest elements of our society. There's quite a lot to enjoy when watching masters practice their craft.

Regarding 'personal interest', do I need to know the latest gossip about a football player's private life to enjoy watching a football game? Come on.
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Old April 28, 2011, 02:48 PM   #490
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The drama is what allows us to choose who we like and who we would like to win. You dont need to see the football players personal life, but dont you like the football player whos out in his community better helping kids better than one whose dogfighting or something?
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Old April 28, 2011, 07:07 PM   #491
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Gang of 4 lost audience respect by ganging up on a fellow shooter to further their own chances.
That's how you play the game. Jamie had the same options except the other players were not good enough to take down the "gang of four". He had the option to try to drive a nail between them when he won immunity. He did not. He didn't play the game very well.

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History Channel is a loser....lost control of the show when gang of 4 manipulated the rules to suit their purpose.
The players broke no rules. Anyone who has ever watched a reality game show knows this is exactly what happens. If you go into it thinking otherwise you are not a very bright person.

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Chris is a loser.....will always have a cloud over his title wondering if he won by having the best performance or the best hard luck story.
No they won't. It won't even be a topic of discussion except on forums for the next couple days and then dies.

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George is a loser....will always be remembered for his foul mouth, unsportsmanlike performance.
Maybe, but as seen in this thread some people are doing an about face on that matter as well.

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Gunny is a loser.....for tarnishing his reputation by joining the immature antics of the gang of 4.
Competing in a voting off show the same way every other one has been done. The person voted to elim still had to make the shot to stay in. The gang of 4 didn't make them miss. Besides the crowd he rolls with could care less about his game show strategy. They will only know him as the 10 time champion.

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Shooting Community is a loser.....no role models emerged in the last episode for youngsters to look up to or emulate.
I don't want my kids looking at any game show contestant as a role model.

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Audience is a loser......for investing time to cheer on examples in the shooting world that the non shooting public could admire and respect.
As your statements pointed out there wasn't much cheering going on. It was a lot of discussion of how distasteful the people were. The non shooting world isn't going to admire or respect a game show shooter anyway.

I enjoyed watching. I will watch the next season. Most the people here will too, even those who said they won't. Take it for what it is. A game show.
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Old April 28, 2011, 07:12 PM   #492
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Regarding 'personal interest', do I need to know the latest gossip about a football player's private life to enjoy watching a football game? Come on.
The number of news outlets supplying that information say yes, people do want to know. Hard Knocks is a widely viewed show as well.
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Old April 28, 2011, 07:26 PM   #493
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At the end of the day, we in the firearms community need to accept that Top Shot is not designed to entertain us (it may do so as an after affect, but thats not the intention). It's meant to appeal to as wide of a variety of viewers as possible, and the producers and challenge designers "guide" the outcome as best they can to reflect that while still keeping an eye on the bottom line. After all, the higher the number of viewers, the better the time slot the show will get. And the better time slot commands a higher $$$ figure from potential advertisers. It's in their best interest for someone to win who a) will not cast the show in a bad light and b) be as universally accepted as possible.

The show starts out with a mishmash of people who are one of two things; interesting or winner material. They need people who are interesting to keep audience attention, while they need a variety of people who will be good universally accepted winners so that viewers will tune in season after season. This becomes apparent in the elimination challenges when certain competitors have a clear advantage. Jay won the .22 challenge because it was arranged to maintain the same point of aim throughout, favoring an olympic style shooter (who is used to hitting one single target over and over) over an action shooter (who is better at transitioning between many targets). Jaime beat Jay, because they gave him a rifle that he was intimately familiar with, while being too heavy for Jay to operate efficiently (Jay aint exactly a big ol boy). Finally, they gave Chris (a shotgun champion) a 12 gauge shotgun in order to knock out Jaime, who makes it clear throughout the show that he is primarily a rifle shooter.

At the end of the day, the other three of the four had no real impact on the outcome. They cant let George win because of the attitude and ego issues, plus the fact that if he wins the money it becomes a conflict of interest and he will likely be seperated from active duty in short order. In addition, the word 'sniper' has been so twisted by mainstream media, theres no way they can advertise that aspect of his persona without driving away less gun savvy viewrs. Joe can't win because they need someone with a more dynamic personality that they can bring back season after season as an expert (plus the fact that he does'nt have the same appeal as Chris, who has a family). Gunny can't win because he is an NRA champion. This makes him scary and controversial on the east and west coast where gun control is a hot topic, and threatens to drive away less informed viewers from those demographics.

End of the day, Chris is the perfect winner. He's a small business owner, has a family and deals with everyday stuff. He's quiet and reserved, so he comes across as your average guy who just so happens to be really good with projectile weapons. Plus its just a great story during a economic recession; average guy works his butt off, minds his Ps and Qs, overcomes adversity, and is rewarded with a buttload of money. Everyone loves happy endings. Plus he is a responsible and knowledgable person who they think won't pull a Richard Hatch when tax season comes a-knockin' and cost them points in the cable tv ratings.
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Old April 29, 2011, 06:04 AM   #494
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The number of news outlets supplying that information say yes, people do want to know. Hard Knocks is a widely viewed show as well.
Don't have HBO, so I have never watched that show.

Of course you're right - lots of people make money peddling crap. That doesn't mean it isn't crap.
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Old April 29, 2011, 07:54 AM   #495
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I think Im with Civil War Life on this one. I was thinking that they may have agreed to split the winnings before the final took place. My girlfriend and I were discussing that very thing after the show.

I know there is a lot of editing, but I think George's ego is to big to intentionally throw that pistol shot. I watched that shot a couple of times, and his facial expression after that miss was of surprise!
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Old April 29, 2011, 11:16 AM   #496
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Although I liked watching Top Shot, this year was pretty disappointing. I think the show should be totally performanced based and the elimination portion be that way especially. The shooters showed way too much bias, by voting on elimination rounds by personalities, rather than performance. This should be taken out of the shooters hands. This caused a severe credibility, and integrity problem with the show.

George, who had been a real jerk most of the show, apparently "threw the match" so to speak, when he had Chris on the ropes. An expert marksman could not hit a 25 foot large target? A sniper, who hit a 1000 yard shot in thirty-two seconds could not hit a 200 yard target? I am also perplexed by the Gunny continue to miss with the 10-22. Something just smelled fishy about the whole ending. Makes you wonder if this was a shooting match or a carefully orchestrated soap opera type ending for ratings. The show in my mind has lost it's credibility. Unless they change the format for pure performance, and taking all control away from the shooters that you can reasonably, I may not watch it, next season.
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Old April 29, 2011, 11:27 AM   #497
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@Oldjarhead

Trust me - record it or watch it On Demand, fast-forward through all of the B.S. that happens off the range, and it is much more enjoyable.
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Old April 29, 2011, 05:28 PM   #498
Fifthwheel
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Its a t.v. Show!

Its not about marksmanship,its about the marksmen.Most of Y'all here want a show strictly about marksmanship.I'm not opposed to the idea.But the T.V. people want a show that features unique Individuals put into a stressful situation.Its "Survivor" with guns!The format is about people,not firearms.
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Old April 30, 2011, 11:14 AM   #499
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If you want a show purely about marksmanship then watch Top Sniper.
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Old April 30, 2011, 12:25 PM   #500
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There is more actual shooting footage in Top Shot than Top Sniper though. Instead of the between shoots drama in Top Shot there is a lot of technical/informative/demonstrative talk in Sniper. For your hardcore gun guy that is a better show. For the general audience it is boring and borderline unwatchable as demonstrated by the ratings comparison between the two.
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