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Old January 7, 2010, 12:35 AM   #26
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Right on, chris. That's pretty much how I feel about it, too.
I have a G21 in the nightstand and an Ithaca DS Police in the corner next to it.
The reason is because I'm pretty good with both of them. I would most likely grab the G21, though.
I also have a child down the hall.

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I have always had dogs. I have 2 staring at me right now. Unless I tell them to be nice, they won't be.
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Old January 7, 2010, 08:55 AM   #27
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I have handguns, rifles, shotguns, . . . and I do not have any pre-conceived connotation as to which I will use when .................... happens.

I have run over the scenario in my mind that will address multiple assailants attempting to break in, . . .

I have run over the scenario in my mind that will address the big bump in the night scenario, . . .

I have run over the scenario in my mind that will address an individual outside the house, . . . shooting at the house.

Each requires a different weapon for maximum effect, . . . but I would feel pretty much at home with any of the weapons in any scenario.

I really believe the main thing is to be proficient with THE weapon you choose. Fumbling with a magazine, . . . putting rounds in backwards, . . . looking for a telescope sight on a shotgun, . . . it'll all get you killed if it causes you to hesitate or have to clear a bad malfunction.

Be prepared, . . . be proficient, . . . have a plan, . . . have a backup plan. I think that is the key.

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Old January 7, 2010, 10:00 AM   #28
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i am an all three kinda guy

mossberg 500 persuader by my side of the bed, springflied 1911 on the headboard, my wife has her .38 on her side of the bed and a louisville slugger for good measure.
a nagant is in a closeby room and all ammo is secured in the bedroom so if we have to hold out till help arrives i GUARANTEE i have more ammo than the baddies.
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Old January 7, 2010, 10:38 AM   #29
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A few years ago I read that Massad Ayoob when sleeping keeps
a Beretta 9mm ready. He said sometimes it would be on a dresser
or on the floor next to the bed and usually a magazine or newspaper
would be laying over it for cover.

Ever since two home invasions have occurred very close to home (one about
10 houses down the block and the other much closer) I began to rethink
and rework my "HD plan".

I keep a Smith and Wesson 686 plus 3 inch revolver with me wherever
I may be at home (kitchen/livingroom/office).

I also keep a Colt detective special hidden but accessible in the main
bathroom. Aside from others in the safe, these are the firearms that
I am very proficient and confident with.

I am a firm believer that a long gun will not only be more effective for
dealing with a threat but the big barrel itself visually could be a deterrent. Therefore aside from the 686 there is a double barrel 20 gauge centrally
located behind a door with a light jacket hung over the barrels
against the wall.

The "get to safe room" if time permits or the "fall back and wait" plan
includes a mossberg 500 20 gauge youth camo turkey gun with 5 rounds
of buckshot in the magazine and six more in the side saddle. I've been
handling and shooting this gun for the last 10+ years but hope it will
just have to continue to be used for quail and rabbits.

I so appreciate everyone discussing their experiences / thoughts / plans
and as we mostly realize, the chances are small that our homes will be
invaded or robbed. But it does happen to folks each and every day. And I believe the occurrences are becoming more sudden and violent.
"It'll happen fast once I start" - Charlie Waite
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Old January 7, 2010, 11:14 AM   #30
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Long Gun vs Handgun

I use to be in the multi-gun group. Then I got a chance to "play" with a Noveske N4 Shorty. I changed my mind. I sent off the ATF paperwork to convert an AR15 Pistol (RRA) to a SBR. I then installed a 10.5" barrel with a Gemtech Suppressor ( I already had the suppressor). I installed a 6 position Vltor Collapsible Butt Stock. I'm a one gun guy now! 223 at close range works well. I have a compact powerful, relatively quiet weapon that serves both purposes. Total costs ~$1900.00 that you can spend a bit at a time. Without the Suppressor ~$1000.00 (again Less than a good Ed Brown, Wilson, or Nighthawk). Just my choice. BTW, this shorty has a muzzle velocity of 2900 with military ball and shoots 1MOA at 100yds. I use a Trijicon RX30-14, no batteries, just look through it. Pick it up, flip the safety, point the dot. Just another option. Lastly, this has a very high cool factor.
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Old January 7, 2010, 11:47 AM   #31
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I'd like to hear from people that have had an actual home invasion experience on this subject.
Not a home invasion but a B&E attempted robbery. We were moving out of a house. After the packers had packed everything we had planned on staying at a hotel but changed our minds. About 1130 that night someone forced the front door and knocked over some boxes. We were actually sleeping on the bottom level of a multi-floor town home. Most of the guns were of course already packed except for my Glock, which I always keep with me and an old Enfield rifle that the wife was going to show the FIL.

I gave the wife the rifle who stayed near the basement slider prepared to make a hasty exit if needed while I checked the front door to make sure that there were actually people there. This was pre-children, pre-dog days. The phone had been disconnected and we had no cell phones at the time either. Even though I had a round chambered I racked the slide while at the bottom of the stairwell. As soon as I did that there were hurried whispers and mulitple rapid footsteps heading outside.

We could never prove it but we figured the packers had come back to rob us, thinking we were at the hotel. When the found the house occupied they hauled but out of there. Spent the next day fixing the door before we moved out.

While a bolt action rifle was never my first choice the wife fell in love with it that night and used it for HD for the next ten years. She said having a big heavy rifle that she could use as a club if necessary would likely intimidate the bad guys and was pretty comforting to have around. She uses a compact .45 now but the Enfield is never far from the bed.
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Old January 7, 2010, 12:01 PM   #32
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Personally I believe the short barrel shotgun to be the best single tool for HD. However I think it is a part of the overall system at my house. First is the EWD (early warning device) which is my female black lab. Then is the EDD (early deterent device) my big male lab. If you live through him which is not likely. You then have to contend with myself and the STI full of 230gr .45acp and the BPS full of #4 buck. The woman of the house has a 642 with Gold dot 135gr +p and several speedloaders. After that the Bushmaster and DPMS LR308 come to into play.
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Old January 7, 2010, 12:10 PM   #33
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Shotguns are nice when you're groggy, but you can't handle a flashlight. I go back and forth on this issue, lately I am going with the pistol and maglight as I have housemates again and want to be absolutely sure of my target before I prosecute with deadly force.

Rifle would be my last choice... but I don't own any battle rifles manufactured after 1952.
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Old January 7, 2010, 12:15 PM   #34
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In the late 70's I was stationed in the Tidewater Virginia area. Lived in Portsmouth near the Navy Yard. The Navy paid the city for dusk to dawn patrol. Bad guys still entered several houses every payday and took your money out of your wallet and wifes' purse. They would be in the kitchen sans the cash.

I had a black lab that had a name change. We called him Killer when we lived there. You could also look into my home and see long guns on the wall in a rack. A couple of times a month the dog would wake me barking. I would just wait and see. No one ever came in. At the time we were told to not shoot until the BG was inside. And if you shot him and he fell out the window, go outside and shove him back in before you called LEO.

At that time I came to believe in that bad guys had figured out that guns and barking dogs were bad for business.
Use enough gun.
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Old January 7, 2010, 01:15 PM   #35
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youp made me think of something that happened in the 80's although I'm sure you don't keep your guns in the open these days , I kind'a did in the early 80's if I ran an ad on a gun for sale they could come to the house , big mistake now of course looking back but then it still felt safe until a lawyer I knew who sold guns from estates in the local trader turned up dead along with his wife that soon ended the welcome to my house deal's, put what I had on consignment at a local gun shop and that was that .. All that to say this word of mouth people talk .. and the less said about items kept at home the better I know this is a little off the topic but I wanted to say that ..
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Old January 7, 2010, 02:40 PM   #36
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I think the answer will depend a lot on individual needs and circumstances.

In the abstract, a shotgun is undoubtedly a lot more effective than any handgun.

The long arm is probably a lot more cumbersome in close quarters, however. Also, in the event that moving around the house should prove necessary for the purpose of ensuring the safety of others, it may also be more easily grabbed by a home invader. It generally keeps two hands occupied. Finally, it is best suited to "keeping somewhere", and one just might not be able to get to that "somewhere" safely.

For me, a hand gun kept on my person seems to be the right answer. However, I seriously doubt that there is any right answer that would meet the needs of everyone. One has to evaluate his or her needs and make his or her own decision.

In each of the three instances in which I have had to bring a firearm into play, I have used a handgun. No shots were fired, fortunately.
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Old January 13, 2010, 11:22 AM   #37
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I'm more of a "both, and" not an "either, or" kinda guy. Realistically no one walks around their house carrying a long arm at all times. At least I hope no one here does that unless there is a very specific threat. So pistols get the nod for "always at hand." But having quick access to a long arm (and a secure enough house that you have time to get to it) is a very good idea as well.

If you have a chance to arm and prepare before the event (dogs barking, alarm going off etc) a long arm is always a better choice. Assuming it's not a 32" duck gun or an 1891/30 length shouldn't be an issue. If you think someone can just snatch a rifle from you, get a training rifle and try it. Trying to grab a long gun from someone is a great way to get shot. However, what if you have kids and need a free hand? I prefer long guns that can be easily operated one handed, on a single or three point sling. But those slings require training to not get tangled up in. Ideally one would have the long arm on a sling, with the side arm holstered on the body. But there may not be time/opportunity to prepare that thoroughly.
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Old January 24, 2010, 12:14 AM   #38
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I have a Glock 34 in 9mm that is by the bed with the light and 33 round loaded magazines in the bedroom and in some of the other rooms in the house.

There is an old saying "If you have a choice never go to a man, always let a man come to you, the first thing the eye sees is movement" so in the case of a break in I will set up an ambush and not clear the house. My house is all brick so unless I put a round through a window I am not worried about over penetration.

That being said I prefer the shotgun under the bed loaded with 00 buck to the Glock pistol. In close quarters if you can't get a shot off you can always give them the vertical and horizontal butt stroke, something you cannot do with a handgun.
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Old January 24, 2010, 01:53 AM   #39
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I keep a WW1300 12 ga in each vehicle and beside the bed. I may or may not have a handgun close at hand but if things get ugly I'll use the handgun until I can get to a shotgun, no matter if I'm carrying a .45, a hideout .22 or anything in between. I've trained, practiced and competed for thousands of hours with a handgun but none hit harder, physically or psychologically, than a shotgun. Luckily I've always had full compliance after chambering a round in a shotgun or rifle in LE situations, somehow a handgun just doesn't have the same effect. There's an ugly black non-PC rifle in the safe for special cases so I guess I'm a three gun person as well. Possible scenarios vary widely, we must be flexible and plan for as many as possible.
I live in a rural area, I'll dial 911 but I can't count on them for help with the situation at hand.
I have a dog as well but he's getting old and getting to be a sound sleeper in his old age. He's pretty scrappy when he's not snoring!

Last edited by TXGunNut; January 24, 2010 at 09:29 AM.
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Old January 24, 2010, 04:22 AM   #40
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glock 22 2 feet away from me if i have to react immediately with someone in sight and advancing (IF i even have a chance given that i was surprised). Rossi .38 is in a holster behind the headboard attached where i would naturally reach backwards (gun is out of sight, feel only). I should probably put a knife back there also. push dagger maybe.

If i have time to mount a defense and wait and listen while calling 911, I have the sub2000 ready to go leaning against the nightstand. Light is mounted on it. pressure switch for laser only if shooting from hip (dunno why i would, but stranger things have happened). That's #30 .40S&W 180 grain gold dots ready at the finger in a compact carbine. spare mags placed around the house. They fit both the glock 22 AND the sub2000. handy.

Phoenix is freakin' full of crime, I may sound paranoid but stuff happens here. Moving about the house, I ALWAYS have a gun on me. P3AT never leaves me until i go to bed. Also, I carry the Glock 22 more often than not. Bathroom ? Gun. Shower ? Gun. Dinner ? Gun. Always.

short answer: it depends on time and circumstance. if you're surprised and have no time, handgun is your only real chance. If you can mount a defense, i like the carbine. Shotguns are good, but home invasions are turning more and more into a team sport these days. I like having more rounds. If you live alone a mile away from anyone, you might as well use an AK47 or AR15 and just cut loose

Last edited by sonick808; January 24, 2010 at 04:40 AM. Reason: i am a compulsive editor
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Old January 24, 2010, 09:29 AM   #41
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The handgun is my always have handy gun on my person or at least ready from the quick access safe. If I had time to get it I'd prefer the shotgun, but that includes unlocking it and loading it. It's not practical for me to have a shotgun loaded and at the ready when small kids are around.
"I assert that nothing ever comes to pass without a cause." Jonathan Edwards
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Old January 24, 2010, 06:17 PM   #42
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The rest of the story

Originally Posted by Formula233
While reading this I was not going to reply but to Chris in va 45acp is the only way to go ..I had a short 870 12g for years until a buddy of mine ex Green Beret had a break in the man almost stepped on him while he was a sleep in a downstair bedroom he grabbed his Colt 1911a1 and put 2 in him and the rounds didn't come out 45acp for me.. True story
I am a fan of the .45 ACP as well.

But, I have to point out that two shots does not make a very convincing statistical base. You havecited what is called "anecdotal evidence". The truth of it happens to be borne out by a LOT of good statistical evidence, but that brings me to my next "but".

What bullet was used, and how fast was it travelling? Military hardball is a lot more prone to overpenetrate than Glaser Safety Slugs (highly frangible bullet) or Winchester Silvertips (huge hollowpoint), the latter of which has a much better record of man-stopping than hardball..

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Old January 24, 2010, 11:25 PM   #43
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I've shot skeet for years. I've learned most folks think shotgun pellets fan out quickly. True enough when shooting clays or birds, but the pattern of most any shotgun within 25' (a big room in a typical home) is about the size of a softball.
Birdshot or buckshot, the bad guy won't have wounds all over his upper body when shot at close range. There will be one awful hole surrounded by a few stray pellet holes.
Few people die from being hit with birdshot.
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Old January 25, 2010, 12:16 AM   #44
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Just for me.

It is two 90 lbs boxers and a mossberg 410 ga with 000 buckshot four rounds. After that if it is still going on the mossberg makes a nice club.
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Old January 25, 2010, 12:23 PM   #45
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It seems to me that both types have advantages and disadvantages and that it would be prudent to have both (or all three if you have a handgun, shotgun, and rifle) on hand to deal with whatever scenario may come up.
This is my philosophy, all three.

But in terms of a surprised entry, it would be a pistol for me. Easier to use, plus it holds 15 rounds, and since I don't wear bed clothes, easier to snatch a spare mag in hand and still fire somewhat accurately.

As to the shotgun and rifle, I have them at the ready in the safe. But I would only go for them with some type of advanced warning. A shootout in the street in front of my house, the knowledge that violent badguys or prison escapees are in the area, recent break ins in my neighborhood, etc. A pistol gives you more defensive capabilities (i.e. hide behind cover and still shoot, harder for a BG to disarm you) in my opinion and is the mainstay in my HD scenerio.
I have rounds yet to fire before I sleep ...
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Old January 25, 2010, 07:52 PM   #46
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For me it's simple handguns, with my pacemaker the recoil of any long-gun more powerful than a .22 is a bad idea. So I prefer either my M&P 40 or my PT-22, whichever I can get to first depending on where I am, (as I am typing this the Taurus is on the table in front of me, and my M&P is in my e-vault by my bed).

Different people like different things. If i didnt have a pacemaker, my primary home defense would be a 12 gauge shotgun, and my pistols, but you play with the hand your dealt. So I think the answer is whichever gun you can make it to first.
Let not a man guard his dignity, but let his dignity guard him. -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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