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Old December 15, 2009, 01:25 PM   #26
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Mongo, . . . you and the OP already have a superior tactical advantage, . . . being at the top of a stairway.

Funnel of death, . . . and Kill Zone, . . . are nicknames given to the area of a stairway if you are the one going up. Soldiers and LEO's hate em, . . . and avoid them if they can.

Make your's so, . . . be creative, . . . fix it so it is noisy, . . . cumbersome, . . . hazardous, . . .

Put a gate, or better yet a door at the bottom of it.

Put a motion detector so that anyone moving to the base of it sets off the alarm, . . . and have the alarm "ON" button in your bedroom. Go to bed at night and arm the thing, . . . a couple or three 100 db horns within 10 feet of the bottom of your stairs, . . . whoever sets it off will speak evil of your ancestors for days.

If you have teenagers coming in later at night, . . . you can put a delay timer somewhere downstairs so they can hit the delay button, . . . head up the stairs, . . . and as soon as the timer times out, . . . your alarm is good to go again.

HD is not all shooting, . . . HD is first and foremost, prevention of shooting, if it is possible.

May God bless,
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If you can read, . . . thank a teacher!
If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!
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Old December 15, 2009, 03:58 PM   #27
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Mongo, . . . you and the OP already have a superior tactical advantage, . . . being at the top of a stairway.

Funnel of death, . . . and Kill Zone, . . . are nicknames given to the area of a stairway if you are the one going up. Soldiers and LEO's hate em, . . . and avoid them if they can.

Make your's so, . . . be creative, . . . fix it so it is noisy, . . . cumbersome, . . . hazardous, . . .

Put a gate, or better yet a door at the bottom of it.

Put a motion detector so that anyone moving to the base of it sets off the alarm, . . . and have the alarm "ON" button in your bedroom. Go to bed at night and arm the thing, . . . a couple or three 100 db horns within 10 feet of the bottom of your stairs, . . . whoever sets it off will speak evil of your ancestors for days.

Or, be like my house when I had a two story - there were always Legos, marbles, matchbox cars and other assorted stuff to make you slip, fall and curse the darkness!.........
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Old December 18, 2009, 10:05 PM   #28
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Back to the .45

I am under the impression that if you have a clear enough view of the BG, you will be shooting directly at him.

Keeping in mind that you have the high ground and the advantage in this situation, you should see him first. Well aimed shots with the .45 will do him some bad, you know what I mean?

If you are intent on using MaDeuce, just be sure to aim the same way. The sound of cocking it should drive fear into anyone, but in case the message isn't clear, there needs to be some bang, and NOT just in the general direction, but directly at the general cause of your problem.

This will (hopefully) keep your son out of harm's way becasue I know that's a concern. A great, worthy concern. Be safe.
"Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum"
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Old December 20, 2009, 12:08 AM   #29
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So, let me see if I understand. You and the kid are both on the top floor, right? Harden the house enough that you'll have warning, then camp on the top of the stairs. Very bright lights shining downstairs are also good. Look into window film, pinned windows, double keyed deadbolts (and a steel door frame lag bolted to structural elements) etc. Abloy is the best of the best lockset-wise, but Medeco is great as well. Don't use reed switches on door/windows. DJ Armour is great. Hinges are cheap, get the best and secure them well. Etc etc

Cameras. Lots of cameras. One or two covering the bad neighbor, the rest on a monitor you can see inside that cover secluded points of access.

Get your wife involved. She needs to be a part of the plan.
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Old January 2, 2010, 03:11 PM   #30
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My wife and I have been blessed with a beautiful new baby boy! Previously I get my .45 by the bed. However, my sons room is in the direct line of fire from my bedroom entrance. I believe that a .45 could penetrate the walls and enter his room. Soo, I have put the .45 up and opted for a shotgun. I have a 12 guage pump for me and my wife has a .410 Mossberg with a pistol grip forearm bc she can handle it better than a 12.
One alternative is to go back to the .45 and use a frangible round. These are made to disentergrtate when they make contac with hard surfaces. I am a member of my church's security ministry and I load my weopon with these rounds (Glazer safety). On the unfortunate chance that I would have to fire my weapon at a BG inside the sanctuary, over-penetration would not be a concern. This may be a consideration for your situation and concerns.
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Old January 2, 2010, 05:03 PM   #31
Join Date: December 9, 2009
Location: Inland Empire, Ca.
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First of all, Congratulations on your newborn!

Ok. You asked two questions. 1)What type of home defense load do we recommend. 2)What methods do we recommend to better protect your home and family.

1) Considering you said moving your newborn is not an option, leaving your only option, should you be forced to deal with an intruder directly, is to use a firearm. I agree with the forementioned Glazer safety slugs.
True, you could fortify your house like Fort Knox with all sorts of 'anti-intrusion and burglary devices' that could thwart the world's most skilled cat burglar. But the burning question still remains: What if the perp(s) does make it up the stairs and into our bedroom? Glazer. However, make no mistake, with frangible rounds you will definitely loose a considerable amount of terminal ballistic advantage. You will most likely leave superficial flesh wounds. And I have heard that even a thick winter coat will stop them. IMO, better to wound the BG rather than smoke him and risk overpenetration and strike my child. At the very least, you could empty the gun into him and if he's still kicking... pistol whip him to death. The only good meth-head is a dead one! Besides, a worm's gotta eat too. Out in my neck of the woods, we call them 'Tweekers'.

Fortunately, you said you own a dog. Bravo! Provided the dog knows to bark and alert you and your wife at any sign of danger, you'll have a tremendous edge....TIME. Then you can reposition yourself (and follow the advice of some of the previous posters...your wife grabbing baby and calling 911, etc.) and dealing with an intruder on your own terms.

As forementioned, keeping a low profile is a very good idea. If you approach the neighbor and this son of his and his friends gain knowledge of your dissatisfaction, that could be risky. Even if these kids have a rival, who decides to retaliate somehow, they could easily blame you and react on you even though you weren't involved. Annominity is golden, no?

Finally, it would be very wise to keep harping on law enforcement. Gather whatever evidence you can. That mention of video surveillance was a real good one! Try to get documentation for each time you file a complaint. That way, if the unthinkable ever does manifest itself, you have a paper trail that would help your defense if ever needed.

I wish you and your family the best of luck. Once again, Congratulations on your new edition!
And on the 7th day God said, "LET THERE BE MARINES"...and the Gates of Hell opened.
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Old January 2, 2010, 08:38 PM   #32
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Where do you live for God's sake? Any thing above a good slingshot will penetrate two layers of sheet rock. How about a good hickory baseball bat? Or maybe a 9 iron, it worked well for Tiger Wood's BETTER half! Seriously, maybe you need a better plan, like a good security system. There is not a serious self defense firearm that is not a threat to you family (congrats BTW) if not used properly.
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Old January 2, 2010, 10:50 PM   #33
Rich Keagy
Join Date: June 30, 2009
Location: southern California
Posts: 48

Lights and alarms are great, but 2-3 shots from your 1911 into a bucket of sand will do the trick.
How many burglars want some of that?
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Old January 2, 2010, 10:58 PM   #34
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2-3 shots from your 1911 into a bucket of sand
Is this a new deterrent I haven't heard of??
All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse, and a good wife.
-Daniel Boone
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Old January 3, 2010, 02:59 AM   #35
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It's even more terrifying than the distinctive sound of a 12 gauge pump being racked.
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Old January 14, 2010, 03:46 AM   #36
Lost Sheep
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Just in case you ARE living next to a meth lab.

In addition to the following advice from the Nevada Attorney General (below), do a web search on "Methamphetamine House" "Meth House Inspection" "Meth House Detection" "Methamphetamine Laboratory" and similar phrases. Also web search for "Drug House"

I found several, one of which I have pasted below. The others, I just posted links

Also, the Illinois state web site contains this advice:

this site asks the question

The health effects of living in a former meth house??

sketchy, but containing some useful information and links

Recognizing a Meth House/Structure

A house or other structure containing a meth lab will display “telltale signs” of meth production. Some of these signs concern the appearance of the structure itself, while others concern the behavior of the occupants. It is important to learn to recognize these "telltale signs" and know what to do if you see them.


Unusual Odors: Making meth produces powerful odors that may smell like ammonia or ether. These odors have been compared to the smell of cat urine or rotten eggs.

Covered Windows: Meth makers often blacken or cover windows to prevent outsiders from seeing in.

Strange Ventilation: Meth makers often employ unusual ventilation practices to rid themselves of toxic fumes produced by the meth-making process. They may open windows on cold days or at other seemingly inappropriate times, and they may set up fans, furnace blowers, and other unusual ventilation systems.

Elaborate Security: Meth makers often set up elaborate security measures, including, for example, "Keep Out" signs, guard dogs, video cameras, or baby monitors placed outside to warn of persons approaching the premises.

Dead Vegetation: Meth makers sometimes dump toxic substances in their yards, leaving burn pits, "dead spots" in the grass or vegetation, or other evidence of chemical dumping.

Excessive or Unusual Trash: Meth makers produce large quantities of unusual waste that may contain, for example:

• packaging from cold tablets

• lithium batteries that have been torn apart

• used coffee filters with colored stains or powdery residue

• empty containers – often with puncture holes – of antifreeze, white gas, ether, starting fluids, Freon, lye, drain opener, paint thinner, acetone, alcohol, or other chemicals

• plastic soda bottles with holes near the top, often with tubes coming out of the holes

• plastic or rubber hoses, duct tape, rubber gloves, or respiratory masks.


Appearance and Cleanliness of the Structure: Houses and other structures hosting meth labs vary enormously in their appearance. It may be immediately apparent that meth is being manufactured and used in the structure. A structure hosting a meth lab may be unkempt, unsanitary, and full of chemical odors. On the other hand, the structure may also appear very normal and orderly. The appearance of the structure depends on the care that the meth manufacturer takes to hide his or her unlawful activities.

Presence of Meth Ingredients: The best indicators of meth production are the presence of the ingredients used to make the drug. Homes containing a meth lab may have either (1) a large amount of a single meth ingredient, such as Sudafed, or, alternatively (2) a significant number of ingredients and supplies used to make meth. Here are some typical meth-making ingredients and supplies:

• cold medications containing ephedrine or pseudoephedrine

• lithium batteries

• ether and/or camping fuels

• anhydrous ammonia

• hydrogen peroxide

• Red Devil lye

• sulfuric, muriatic, and/or hydrochloric acid

• coffee filters

• funnels and turkey basters

• improvised glassware

While many of these ingredients and equipment are common, the amounts and the form of the ingredients needed to manufacture meth are different than what the average person would possess. For example, multiple boxes of cold medicine, or cold medication removed from blister packs, may indicate the presence of a meth lab. The same is true for coffee filters covered with strange stains or powders.

Presence of Equipment or Apparatus Used to Meth: In addition, there may be strange types of equipment or apparatus in the house used to manufacture meth. For example, soft drink bottles with hoses attached or cans of camping fuel with holes punched through the sides or bottom indicate the presence of a meth lab.


Paranoid Behavior: Meth makers tend to act in a manner that is extremely paranoid and secretive. For example, they may monitor passing cars, show great suspicion toward strangers, and – as noted above – construct elaborate security systems around their homes.

Staying Inside: Residents of houses containing meth labs may remain inside their homes for extended periods of time. Many meth addicts and meth makers are not only paranoid and secretive, but also unemployed.

Smoking Outside: By the same token, residents of houses and other structures containing meth labs often go outside to smoke. They do this to avoid igniting a fire or explosion when matches, lighters, or cigarettes come into contact with the highly combustible chemicals and fumes found in a meth lab.

Frequent Visitors: Although residents of a house or other structure containing a meth lab may stay in or near their homes, they often receive a large number of visitors, especially at night. These visitors may be bringing supplies, taking away meth, using meth, hanging out, or any combination of these activities.

Mobile Garage: To avoid detection of their illegal activities, meth makers may burn their trash, place it in the trash collection area of another house or building, or cart it away and dump it elsewhere.


Stay Calm - Keep your distance and never take matters into your own hands.

Protect Yourself – Leave immediately or do not approach the structure or confront its occupants. Both meth labs and meth users are extremely dangerous and unpredictable.

Protect Others – Alert any innocent bystanders who may be in imminent danger, such as children playing in the front yard of a home you believe may contain a meth lab.

Alert Law Enforcement – Alert local law enforcement authorities without delay.

©2009 Nevada Attorney General
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Old January 21, 2010, 08:17 PM   #37
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If everyone sleeps upstairs, and there's just one way to get up there...then you're golden pony-boy. Just make it impossible to get upstairs without you knowing. That idea of a kid gate with bells is brilliant. Unless you got the teenage mutant ninja turtles coming for you (haven't you seen TMNT 2? they took all those bells off that guy with no sound....creepy). Or if you want to go hi-tec and are uber paranoid, a battery powered motion dector. Someone walks in, it starts ringing. I'm sure they've got em with the speaker remoted to your room...if not then use some speaker wire and good old american enginuity.
Just get a friggen taser for upstairs. It don't matter how drugged you are when your body doesn't respond to your brain. But if they've made it that far you're pretty much SOL. Keep a can of mace or wasp spray close enough to reach. I mean this is all pretty simple stuff. Don't shoot upstairs with the gun. Simple. Just don't. Have an alternate method of dispatching the BG from a distance. Wasp spray is good for like 25' to 30'. Those CO2 powered tasers with the laser aim pointer. A bucket of hot pitch over the stairs with a remote control...(ok the last one is kinda extreme).
There's no well this MIGHT not go through the wall or well this isn't pointed at him EXACTLY. Do you know where every wall beam, nail, light switch, wire etc running through that wall is? If you really want a gun to use, look into that 410 pistol with the 1" barrel. That MIGHT not penetrate....
Be like taco bell, think outside the bun.
Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...
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Old January 21, 2010, 09:02 PM   #38
Rich Keagy
Join Date: June 30, 2009
Location: southern California
Posts: 48
If the baby is already in the house, you've been infiltrated!
And just how tough can a baby be anyway?
Am I missing something?
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