Legal "concealed carry" without a permit - Page 2

Prof Young · June 22, 2009, 10:37 PM

Forum Followers:

Well, I'd say we've generated a lot of heat here and even some light.

Montycop, good point about the difference between a clip and a magazine. Some of us don't shoot so much that we've thought about the difference, but you are right.

As to SD situation happen in seconds . . . some do and some don't. The one time I almost got robbed all I had to do was make eye contact with the guy and he took off. I was lucky. I'm sure there are plenty of SD situation when there is time to put in the magazine and slide the rack back. It is called a rack isn't it?

As to living in Illinois with it's restrictive gun laws, well if guns were my life I suppose I wouldn't live here. In the mean time I don't have any trouble getting the guns and ammo I am interested in, and I belong to the NRA.

I suppose this raises the question of "open carry" and I have no idea what the law is in Illinois, but when I hunt, I'm very much engaging in open carry.

An yea, save for law enforcement there is no concealed carry of a loaded gun permissible in IL. And even if I could get concealed carry I don't know that I would. At the very least I'd need some training. All I know about firearms is what I can read in about and see on the "outdoor channel." I've learned a lot but if I was going to "carry" I'd want instructions from a pro.

As to this topic being worthy of forum discussion . . . well unless you are sure you have the absolute answer to all situations . . . then yea it looks like this is worthy of discussion.

Live well, be safe.
Prof Young

ursavus.elemensis · June 22, 2009, 10:47 PM

it's actually "rack the slide" but whatever....

Prof Young · June 22, 2009, 10:52 PM

Urvaurs (sp?)
You made me laugh out loud. Thanks. Good shooting to you.
Prof Young

Micahweeks · June 22, 2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

I get so tired about this PC crap about clips and magazines.I would have been laughed off the range if I referred to my 30 round banana clip for my M2 carbine as a banana magazine. So if clip was correct in 1958, I consider it correct for 2009. If all you can do is mistakenly correct people about word usage, I suggest you get a life..Most people think a magazine is somethiing you read. Only mall ninjas get upset about a gun clip being called a magazine or vice versa..

Here, here, Lashlarue!!! Don't worry about the grammar nazis, mall police, and just overly gorged, basement dwelling, guns and ammo junkies who have to spout terminology corrections to keep their fragile egos intact in between eating their mama's pancakes and planning their next D&D session.

Lol.

****For clarification, I really do just mean that as a joke. It's not directed at anyone. It's just a funny way of saying that I really don't care if you say magazine or clip (although, I completely accept that it might be funny to only me, but I'm ok with that.

****

SundownRider · June 22, 2009, 11:19 PM

go here and do some research.

www.illinoiscarry.org

cecILL · June 23, 2009, 07:33 AM

Excellent posts ISP2605. It' is certainly amazing how attorneys can twist the language/law around. What if the fanny pack was "specifically designed to house a firearm"? I am most language challenged.

ilbob · June 23, 2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

It' is certainly amazing how attorneys can twist the language/law around. What if the fanny pack was "specifically designed to house a firearm"? I am most language challenged.

Its not really about what the law actually says.

In at least some jurisdictions there is a good chance you will be prosecuted for it regardless and have to spend an enormous amount of money on lawyers, maybe spend some time in the pokie.

Thats just the way it is.

mrray13 · June 23, 2009, 09:02 AM

in MOST southern counties, you won't get prosecuted. we even have a term for that kind of carry, 7 seconds to safety. as you can have a fanny pack, belt looped case or whatever, as long as it's designed to hold the firearm and can be zipped up, and the magazine can be loaded, just not in the gun, but in the same case, one can indeed carry it like that. well, you have to have a valid FOID card too.

yes, some cops don't like it, and will try to arrest you, but in the county where i live, and in the counties i have work/still work as an LEO, nothing will come of it. you will get your gun back, and you will retain your FOID. all bets are off the further north you go, and i'll wager cook county will try to fry your butt.

open carry in illinois? doesn't exist except under one condition, other then LEO, the firearm must be broken down and in an inoperable state. or just broken, as in doesn't work, doesn't matter if it's stolen or not and not broken down......oops, sorry about that last sentence, ignore it, lol....

ninjatoth · June 23, 2009, 01:31 PM

Here in Michigan,purchasing a pistol is very easy now,no wait period,only felonies or misdemeanors involving violence keep you from buying.But getting a CCW is a whole other story.Even with slight depression,even though you are allowed the purchase,you are denied the right to obtain a CCW.That is what it was in my case anyways,so I looked into the laws for reguarding concealment,and there is only one exeption,and that is you can only conceal on your private property,or if you own a business,you can there also.But for me,if I take one step into the woods outside of my property concealing,iv'e broken the law.I can carry it open in appropriate areas like the woods or a gun range,but if my shirt happens to fly in the breeze and cover my weapon,boom,i'm busted.

ronto · June 23, 2009, 02:54 PM

I wouldn't live in States like Illinois even if you gave me free rent.

cecILL · June 24, 2009, 07:20 AM

Ok, if it is legal to transport your firearm unloaded and cased, what if the case had some belt loops? So it would be legal to carry if you "carried" the case but then be illegal if the case were secured with a belt? Or how about a case with a sling over the shoulder? At any gunshow attended, LEOS present, many persons carry their rifles in a case/with sling, on shoulder. There seems to be no distinction between carrying a rifle or pistol. Aaarrrrgh! I just can't seem to make any sense of this.

ilbob · June 24, 2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Ok, if it is legal to transport your firearm unloaded and cased, what if the case had some belt loops? So it would be legal to carry if you "carried" the case but then be illegal if the case were secured with a belt? Or how about a case with a sling over the shoulder? At any gunshow attended, LEOS present, many persons carry their rifles in a case/with sling, on shoulder. There seems to be no distinction between carrying a rifle or pistol. Aaarrrrgh! I just can't seem to make any sense of this.

The powers that be in Illinois want the people carrying guns to be beholden to them via their paychecks.

Its pretty simple really.

DCR · June 25, 2009, 11:46 AM

ISP 2605 has it right - it's inconsistent all over the state. I seem to recall a discussion around the time frame he was talking about regarding a man who was either advocating that fanny pack carry was legal, or maybe he had been criminally charged for doing it...? Help me out, old timers - I don't have time to search the archives that far back for the story...

ISP2605 · June 25, 2009, 12:17 PM

The case you may be thinking of was in Winnebago Co IIRC. His charges were dismissed but he also had other problems.
I was involved in the process of calling quite a few of those state's attorneys trying to get an opinion. It was so frustrating to the point we didn't care what stand the SA took, it was just trying to get most of them to take a stand one way or the other. Most were non-committal and didn't want to be on record one way or the other. We had the public and other LE agencies calling us constantly all wanting a consistent opinion statewide. That wasn't to be. Don't forget state's attorneys are politicians too.

ilbob · June 29, 2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

The case you may be thinking of was in Winnebago Co IIRC. His charges were dismissed but he also had other problems.

True and true.

I think the states attorney appealed the dismissal of the UUW charges.

I am not quite sure what his motivation is but he ended up getting himself into all kinds of other legal troubles.

Perhaps he just enjoys being in cuffs for some reason.

The weird thing is you talk to him in person and he comes off very well. Personable, friendly, reasonable, smart, got all kinds of things going for him. But there is also the 9/11 truther side, and some other things that are troubling that eventually work their way out.

LaBulldog · June 29, 2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

The clip cannot be in the gun, and the chamber must be empty.

This is a clip.

This is a magazine.

Any questions?

Les Auten · June 30, 2009, 06:56 AM

From ISP2605

Quote:

The "fanny pack carry" issue came to light in about 2001. Some were advocating that it was legal, some didn't think it was, most didn't know for sure. My agency was getting called many calls everyday from the public and other LEAs/LEOs asking for an opinion on the legality. I personally fielded a lot of such calls. In order to get a statewide interpretation of how the law was applied and intent of the law we contacted the IL AG. The AG at the time was Jim Ryan who was running for governor. His office refused to give an opinion and deferred to each of the 102 states attorneys. We contacted each of the states attorneys. We got answers ranging from "it's illegal and I'll prosecute" to "it's legal and there is nothing to prosecute". The most common answer was "make the arrest, seize the firearm as evidence, then bring me the case and I'll decide on each case whether to prosecute." Not much guidance was it? What we ended up with was in 1 county fanny pack carry would not be prosecuted, cross the road into another county and the person would be prosecuted, then cross the road into a 3rd county and the person would be arrested and wouldn't know if they're going to be prosecuted until after the SA decided. It wasn't any help to the citizen or LEO. It all depended on the particular SA and court.
Since then the AG has changed and so have a lot of the SAs. However I believe if we did the survey again the results would most likely be about the same statewid

I believe this is the reason the NRA would not back the recent concealed carry bill in IL, if crossing the street makes you a criminal the law is no good.

June 22, 2009, 10:37 PM	#26
Prof Young Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2007 Location: Illinois - down state Posts: 2,404	Heat and light Forum Followers: Well, I'd say we've generated a lot of heat here and even some light. Montycop, good point about the difference between a clip and a magazine. Some of us don't shoot so much that we've thought about the difference, but you are right. As to SD situation happen in seconds . . . some do and some don't. The one time I almost got robbed all I had to do was make eye contact with the guy and he took off. I was lucky. I'm sure there are plenty of SD situation when there is time to put in the magazine and slide the rack back. It is called a rack isn't it? As to living in Illinois with it's restrictive gun laws, well if guns were my life I suppose I wouldn't live here. In the mean time I don't have any trouble getting the guns and ammo I am interested in, and I belong to the NRA. I suppose this raises the question of "open carry" and I have no idea what the law is in Illinois, but when I hunt, I'm very much engaging in open carry. An yea, save for law enforcement there is no concealed carry of a loaded gun permissible in IL. And even if I could get concealed carry I don't know that I would. At the very least I'd need some training. All I know about firearms is what I can read in about and see on the "outdoor channel." I've learned a lot but if I was going to "carry" I'd want instructions from a pro. As to this topic being worthy of forum discussion . . . well unless you are sure you have the absolute answer to all situations . . . then yea it looks like this is worthy of discussion. Live well, be safe. Prof Young

June 22, 2009, 10:47 PM	#27
ursavus.elemensis Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2007 Location: southcentral/southeastern PA Posts: 375	it's actually "rack the slide" but whatever.... __________________ "A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people." -The Declaration of Independence

June 22, 2009, 10:52 PM	#28
Prof Young Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2007 Location: Illinois - down state Posts: 2,404	Great stuff Urvaurs (sp?) You made me laugh out loud. Thanks. Good shooting to you. Prof Young

June 22, 2009, 11:19 PM	#30
SundownRider Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 509	go here and do some research. www.illinoiscarry.org __________________ " Of every One-Hundred men, Ten shouldn't even be there, Eighty are nothing but targets, Nine are real fighters... We are lucky to have them...They make the battle. Ah, but the One, One of them is a Warrior... and He will bring the others back." - Heraclitus (circa 500 BC)

June 23, 2009, 02:54 PM	#35
ronto Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2007 Location: Smack Dab in the Middle of Nowhere. Posts: 505	I wouldn't live in States like Illinois even if you gave me free rent. __________________ "We will do this: we will hang together, we will keep our organization, our arms, our discipline, our hatred of oppression, until one universal shout goes up from an admiring age that this Missouri Cavalry Division preferred exile to submission, death to dishonor". General Joseph O. Shelby, CSA (1830-1897) The only Confederate General who refused to surrender himself or his 1,000+ "Iron Brigade".

June 23, 2009, 07:33 AM	#31
cecILL Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: central IL Posts: 769	Excellent posts ISP2605. It' is certainly amazing how attorneys can twist the language/law around. What if the fanny pack was "specifically designed to house a firearm"? I am most language challenged.

June 23, 2009, 09:02 AM	#33
mrray13 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 911	in MOST southern counties, you won't get prosecuted. we even have a term for that kind of carry, 7 seconds to safety. as you can have a fanny pack, belt looped case or whatever, as long as it's designed to hold the firearm and can be zipped up, and the magazine can be loaded, just not in the gun, but in the same case, one can indeed carry it like that. well, you have to have a valid FOID card too. yes, some cops don't like it, and will try to arrest you, but in the county where i live, and in the counties i have work/still work as an LEO, nothing will come of it. you will get your gun back, and you will retain your FOID. all bets are off the further north you go, and i'll wager cook county will try to fry your butt. open carry in illinois? doesn't exist except under one condition, other then LEO, the firearm must be broken down and in an inoperable state. or just broken, as in doesn't work, doesn't matter if it's stolen or not and not broken down......oops, sorry about that last sentence, ignore it, lol....

June 23, 2009, 01:31 PM	#34
ninjatoth Junior member Join Date: March 21, 2009 Location: sanford,mi Posts: 590	Here in Michigan,purchasing a pistol is very easy now,no wait period,only felonies or misdemeanors involving violence keep you from buying.But getting a CCW is a whole other story.Even with slight depression,even though you are allowed the purchase,you are denied the right to obtain a CCW.That is what it was in my case anyways,so I looked into the laws for reguarding concealment,and there is only one exeption,and that is you can only conceal on your private property,or if you own a business,you can there also.But for me,if I take one step into the woods outside of my property concealing,iv'e broken the law.I can carry it open in appropriate areas like the woods or a gun range,but if my shirt happens to fly in the breeze and cover my weapon,boom,i'm busted.

June 24, 2009, 07:20 AM	#36
cecILL Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: central IL Posts: 769	Ok, if it is legal to transport your firearm unloaded and cased, what if the case had some belt loops? So it would be legal to carry if you "carried" the case but then be illegal if the case were secured with a belt? Or how about a case with a sling over the shoulder? At any gunshow attended, LEOS present, many persons carry their rifles in a case/with sling, on shoulder. There seems to be no distinction between carrying a rifle or pistol. Aaarrrrgh! I just can't seem to make any sense of this.

June 25, 2009, 11:46 AM	#38
DCR Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 1999 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 178	Fanny Pack Carry ISP 2605 has it right - it's inconsistent all over the state. I seem to recall a discussion around the time frame he was talking about regarding a man who was either advocating that fanny pack carry was legal, or maybe he had been criminally charged for doing it...? Help me out, old timers - I don't have time to search the archives that far back for the story... __________________ I drink, therefore I am.

June 25, 2009, 12:17 PM	#39
ISP2605 Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Posts: 954	The case you may be thinking of was in Winnebago Co IIRC. His charges were dismissed but he also had other problems. I was involved in the process of calling quite a few of those state's attorneys trying to get an opinion. It was so frustrating to the point we didn't care what stand the SA took, it was just trying to get most of them to take a stand one way or the other. Most were non-committal and didn't want to be on record one way or the other. We had the public and other LE agencies calling us constantly all wanting a consistent opinion statewide. That wasn't to be. Don't forget state's attorneys are politicians too.