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Old December 5, 2008, 10:32 PM   #1
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CCW in National Parks

Good day to all:

"WASHINGTON – People will now be able to carry concealed firearms in some national parks and wildlife refuges.

An Interior Department rule issued Friday allows an individual to carry a loaded weapon in a park or wildlife refuge — but only if the person has a permit for a concealed weapon, and if the state where the park or refuge is located also allows loaded firearms in parks.

The rule overturns a Reagan-era regulation that has restricted loaded guns in parks and wildlife refuges. The previous regulations required that firearms be unloaded and placed somewhere that is not easily accessible, such as in a car trunk.

Assistant Interior Secretary Lyle Laverty said the new rule respects a long tradition of states and the federal government working together on natural resource issues.

The regulation allows individuals to carry concealed firearms in federal parks and wildlife refuges to the same extent they can lawfully do so under state law, Laverty said, adding that the approach is in line with rules adopted by the federal Bureau of Land Management and the U.S. Forest Service. Those agencies let visitors carry weapons consistent with applicable federal and state laws.

The National Rifle Association hailed the rule change, which will take effect next month before President-elect Barack Obama takes office."

Its an early christmas present for everyone!!!

edit: I didn't see the same thread in the other forum, please close this one....and go here:
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

Last edited by mikejonestkd; December 5, 2008 at 10:38 PM. Reason: need to remind myself: read twice, post once...
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Old December 5, 2008, 11:03 PM   #2
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excellent news

Here's a discussion of the Final Rule on the Volokh Conspiracy (i.e. Eugene Volokh's blog)

[Previous] regulations generally prohibited visitors from possessing an operable and loaded firearm in areas administered by [the National Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service] unless the firearm is used for lawful hunting activities, target practice in areas designated by special regulations, or other purposes related to the administration of federal lands in Alaska....

[T]he Department's final rule amends the regulations to allow individuals to carry concealed, loaded, and operable firearms in federal park units and refuges to the extent that they could lawfully do so under non-conflicting state law.... [T]o the extent that a state's law recognizes licenses issued by other States, including the applicability of reciprocity agreements, the final rule would similarly recognize such reciprocal authorities.

There are FAQ's here. Some excerpts from that:

Q: Won’t visitors and wildlife be endangered by allowing concealed firearms in parks and refuges?

A: No. The final rule continues to maintain existing regulatory provisions that prohibit poaching, unauthorized target shooting, and other illegal use of firearms. Additionally, individuals authorized to carry firearms in a park or refuge will continue to be subject to all other applicable state and federal laws. We have no reason to believe that law-abiding citizens who carry concealed firearms will disregard these prohibitions and use their firearms for illegal purposes. Moreover, the final rule does not affect existing rules limiting the possession of loaded rifles or shotguns.

Q: Aren’t parks and refuges already safe places? If so, why allow people to carry concealed firearms?

A: America’s national parks and refuges are often safe places to visit, and our law enforcement officials are working to the best of their abilities and resources to maintain visitor safety. However, we also recognize that current statistics show an alarming increase in criminal activity on federal lands managed by the Department of the Interior, especially in areas close to the border and in lands that are not readily accessible by law enforcement authorities. In these circumstances, we do not believe it is appropriate to refuse to recognize state laws simply because a person enters the boundaries of a national park or wildlife refuge, or because there is a lesser chance that a visitor will be harmed or potentially killed by a criminal in a national park unit or wildlife refuge.
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Old December 5, 2008, 11:38 PM   #3
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I wonder if this would apply to National Forest lands? In particular in my state, you may NOT legally carry firearms except during the hunting season and you must have a valid hunting license. The state has labeled these as "wildlife managment areas". My guess is that it changes nothing except inside the national park.
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Old December 5, 2008, 11:59 PM   #4
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""Once again, political leaders in the Bush administration have ignored the preferences of the American public by succumbing to political pressure, in this case generated by the National Rifle Association," said Bill Wade, president of the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees.

"This regulation will put visitors, employees and precious resources of the National Park System at risk. We will do everything possible to overturn it and return to a commonsense approach to guns in national parks that has been working for decades," Wade said."

I am sure Mr Wade would like to hear from the American Public.

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Old December 6, 2008, 12:59 AM   #5
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I may not be the best letter writer, but I decided to write a short one:

Originally Posted by gustav129
The intent of having a Carry Concealed Weapons permit is to hide the fact that the holder has a weapon. A person with a CCW would not randomly pull it out and shoot at people, wildlife, or natural features for the fun of it. Some states require a person to go through various defensive and handgun training classes to qualify for a CCW permit. I personally like to carry a pistol with me when I'm in the woods, for those rare occasions of self defense from wildlife attacks that could possibly happen.

-Russ Lundberg, Spokane WA
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Old December 6, 2008, 03:22 AM   #6
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This will be the shortest lived National Park rule change in history.

It will probably be gone by this summer.

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Old December 6, 2008, 04:09 AM   #7
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The incoming President claims "hiking" as his way of enjoying the out-of-doors. He also claims Yellowstone as an "amazing place" that I want to see more of.

It will be damn tough for the Secret Service to carry in the "wilderness" without the National Park rule change.
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Old December 6, 2008, 08:08 AM   #8
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I know this is futile...but I realized what 'we' should push

for is a return of our rights on all federal land. Forget about the national parks carry rules being the same as the state's they are in.... but make all federal land open or concealed carry to all law abiding citizens... with no need for a state issued piece of that might turn things around.

Instead of working toward 2nd amendment rights from the bottom up... just go to the top and then down?

I realized the other day why the other sides argument that the 2nd is for the millitary and national guard doesn't hold water.... why in the world would the government need to right a rule like that? The Federal government has pretty much full protection... from the people it seems.. Secret Service can carry anywhere they damn well please, actually retired secret service agents can carry anywhere they want. So can any Federal agent I presume.

Last edited by blume357; December 6, 2008 at 09:49 AM.
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Old December 6, 2008, 10:50 AM   #9
Al Norris
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There is already a thread discussing this news, here.

Yes, it's in the (for now) restricted L&CR forum, which means most of you won't be able to post. Even so, the policy of not having duplicate threads at TFL stands.

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