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Old October 9, 2008, 12:37 PM   #26
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I agree with you 100%. A hunter must use Disipline when taking his shots. if he dosn't the 30-06 is not going to be anymore forgiving than the 22-250. I have been hunting for fifty some years and do use A 22-250 sometimes. I also know the limits of this caliber and feel as confident as I do with other calibers that I use. This is just A guess but I bet you've got A 22-250 cal.somewhere close around.
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Old October 9, 2008, 01:43 PM   #27
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Back in the day the Government here used professional hunters for deer culling. There were so many, and with no natural preadtors, deer numbers were massive. ( My Grandad once shot 60 deer in a morning with a Mark1 .303, but thats a story for another day). For the most part the professionals used BSA .222's, as they could carry more ammo. These were experinced professionals, but i dont think many amateurs should use a .222 on large feral boars, Thar and Elk. Even a .243 just gives you a better margin of error.
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Old October 9, 2008, 03:27 PM   #28
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Ok, first of all the 22-250 is perfectly legal for deer in Arizona. It's also quite capable of taking them within reasonable range. Arizona law simply states "centerfire rifle", leaving the power level to the discression of the hunter. Strictly speaking, is also simply states "centerfire handgun", so a .25 auto would be considered legal. The law definitely leaves a lot to the knowledge of the hunter, and they expect you to use your brain.

What range then? Remember that Arizona's whitetails aren't as big as eastern whitetails. Coues deer top out at around 100-110 lbs field dressed, and I'd shoot one out to about 200 yards with a '250 as long as I was using good bullets designed for decent penetration and expansion.

No varmint bullets, so you'll likely have to handload.

I'd limit the range for mule deer some more; especially for the northern areas. Desert mulies can go 200+ lbs, but average less than that. Some of the northern mulies can get pretty big.

I have an uncle who killed a cow elk with a .223. He shot it through the neck, and was perfectly capable of making the shot.

A lot depends on the shooter's experience. In general, if someone has to ask this kind of question about their firearm, they probably haven't hunted with it enough to be confident yet. A lack of confidence can cost you, so do some shooting at animals with your rifle. Coyotes are great fun to call and shoot, and they'll build both your skill and confidence.

That all said, this post was about the cartridge, and not about the shooter. The '250 is perfectly capable of killing Arizona deer, as long as the hunter/shooter is skilled enough to make the shot, and disciplined enough tp pass up a mediocre shot when the rifle isn't sufficient to make a clean kill.

And only experience can teach you these aspects of hunting.

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Old October 9, 2008, 03:53 PM   #29
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there hasn't been a documented evidence of it causing disease in humans
I am under the impression that:
CWD takes about ten years to show up after infection(infection not being the correct term in this case I believe). It also can be carried through all nervous tissue, so no meat is going to be without risk. One of the big concerns with mad cow disease is that with w/ McDonald's processing a single hamburger could contain meat from a million cows. Almost guaranteed a few thousand.

I'll take my chances on the head shot deer.

More on topic, look at a deer up close. The brain cavity is tiny. I thought the same thing at first.
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Old October 9, 2008, 05:38 PM   #30
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Do not confuse CWD with BSE (mad cow disease). They are not the same and have significantly different symptoms. BSE is cause by a bad protein that eats away the brain. CWD causes the animal to waste away like they are starved.
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Old October 9, 2008, 06:32 PM   #31
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Zombie, Do let them talk you out of the 22-250 if it's legal where you hunt. There are a couple of bullets that work very well on deer and bigger game. I think Hornady is loading the Nosler Partitioned 60 grain bullet for the 22-250. If you are a handloader or know a handloader the 70 grain Speer bullet works great on deer and hogs.

I have a Remington 700 with a 1-14 twist barrel that gets sub 1" 3 shot groups at 100 with the 70 grain Speer "Big Game" bullet.

I had rather someone hunt with a 22-250 they can shoot well, than to hunt with a 30-06 they are afraid of. Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with disliking the recoil of a 30-06. Being truthful more than one in here would agree with you.

As far as large goes. I guess the largest thing I've killed with the 22-250 was a boar hog that weighed in the neighborhood of 300 pounds.
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Old October 9, 2008, 10:07 PM   #32
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.22-250 is a bit different than a .22 Buzzcock, its not a rimfire its a centerfire and it releases 1.7k pounds per square inch of energy with a 65gr load, compared to the 150 pounds per square inch of a .22LR. Big differnce my friend.
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Old October 9, 2008, 10:52 PM   #33
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I have a Remington 700 with a 1-14 twist barrel that gets sub 1" 3 shot groups at 100 with the 70 grain Speer "Big Game" bullet.
There is a man that knows what he is doing.

If a persons .22-250, 220 Swift, etc will stabilize the 70 grain Speer, you can kill deer just as good as you can with a .243.

There is nothing unethical about using a .22-250 on deer with properly structured bullets.

I'm also going to go out on a limb and speculate that the vast majority of the time a deer is shot in the heart lung area with the 55 grain bullet it is cleanly killed.

Some people who have never actually used a .22 caliber high powered rifle on deer are merely assuming what the result would be.

I've owned or shot a rifle for every one of these rifle cartridges and several not pictured, I've killed deer and hogs with most of them too. I know exactly what the will do. The .22-250 will kill deer just as well as a .243, 6 mm, etc with proper shot placement. You don't need to shoot them behind the ear or be right on top of them. All you have to do is make a normal heart lung shot and the 70 grain Speer or 60 grain Nosler will do the rest.
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Old October 10, 2008, 12:27 AM   #34
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After all thats been said in this thread so far I will only add one thing. Check out Barnes solid copper bullets. They will have a near 100% weight retention and Varmint weight bullets wont come apart on contact. That said the 22-250 will kill deer like the hammer of Thor.
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Old October 10, 2008, 09:52 PM   #35
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I have a bunch of reloading gear so i will just hand-load the bullets that i will be using for the deer.
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Old October 14, 2008, 01:00 AM   #36
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Since I live where .22 cal is not legal for deer, it isn't a question of whether I would use it or not here. Is the .22-250 ideal for deer? Not really... Will it kill a deer just as dead as a 30-06? Of course but your odds are better with heavy bullets and precise shot placement.

Ethics... I don't think any state has banned .22 cal for deer because using a .22-250 is unethical. I believe that the states that have restrictions made a choice to minimize the quantity of crippling shots on deer that get away. It isn't a matter of ethics. That said, my personal choice would be .243 as a minumum for a bolt gun and .30-30 for a lever action for deer. Would I complain about someone using a .22-250 in a state that allows it? Nope, but I might whine some if the person wasn't very careful about when to take a shot.

Would I take a shot if all I had was my .22-250 with me in a state where it was legal? I might if I had heavy bullets not designed for varmints and the perfect shot was possible.
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Old October 14, 2008, 09:43 AM   #37
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A friend of mine took a 17 point non-typical (which scored 193) using a 22-250.

The buck weighed 225 lbs. and a neck shot took him right down.
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Old October 14, 2008, 10:07 AM   #38
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Remember that most regulations about caliber date back to when the only loadings for the centerfire .22s were designed for varmints. 40-grain, 50-grain which were designed to blow up in small critters.

The wildlife folks also considered, SFAIK, that a lot of deer hunters tend to shoot somewhere in the brown, not at a particular small place on Bambi.
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Old October 14, 2008, 03:34 PM   #39
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hell i know you guys dont want to hear this but over here 22-250 is popular with game harvesters.up to gemsbuck!!! what can i say shot placement and penatration! ie all head shots. having said that i opt for the bigger the better. i wont hunt gemsbuck with less than a 308.
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Old October 15, 2008, 06:27 PM   #40
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I wish people would stop trying to make a cartridge do more than what it was designed to do. Yes, I suppose that a 22-250 could kill and Elephant but success in not very likely. The 22-250 was never designed to take deer. It was designed to be used on smaller game. Coyote being the largest. It is very capable of doing so and at suprisingly long range.

Please do the game you are hunting the respect that it deserves and hunt with a cartridge that was designed to take him.
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Old October 15, 2008, 07:34 PM   #41
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If a shot to the brain usually kills a human why is it so ineffective against an animal?
1) A human's brain is a much larger target and as such is easier to hit.

2) A deer's brain is about the size of a smallish tangerine.

3) Much of the time when a head shot is attempted, it misses the brain but hits the head resulting in a lingering death from wounds such as the lower jaw being ruined by the bullet. The shot to the brain is not ineffective. It's just that most people who attempt the shot, can't reliably make the shot under hunting conditions. I can shoot a target the size of a tangerine all day long on the square range at a hundred yards. I can't reliably make that same shot from a deer stand.

That's why.
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Old October 15, 2008, 09:00 PM   #42
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My grandfather did a lot of hunting in Africa with the .22-250. It was his favorite chambering for deer to large antelope sized game in his later years. He was a big fan of the Roy Weatherby school of projectile tossing (speed is better than weight, but both is best) until he couldn't hack the .300 Weatherby anymore, then he switched over to light-recoiling small-caliber laser rifles.

For large bears and other dangerous game he grudgingly stepped up to .25-06 where there were no legal restrictions on caliber.

My family has dozens of mounts that seem to say ".22-250 kiiiiiiiilllled meeee" if you look into their glass eyes long enough.

It works if you know where to shoot.
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Old October 16, 2008, 12:33 AM   #43
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I have taken one deer with a 22-250 in Oklahoma. He was about 35yds away and since it was a tack driver I put the cross hairs high on his neck, really right below his chin. Well it dropped him, a couple seconds later it was all over. I say get to know your limits with this gun, and use heaver bullets like the 55Gr. Don't just wound another deer like others we all know.
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Old October 23, 2008, 12:01 PM   #44
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I've been doing a little research into .22 centerfire projectiles and it seems that now Speer no longer lists the .224 70 grain as a big game bullet. Although they still produce the .224 70 grain semi-spitzer, their present .22 big game bullet offering is the 55 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. I'm sure this information is nothing new to some of you, but I was a little behind the times on what Speer's latest and greatest .224 big game bullet was.

Anyway while I'm positive that the 70 grainer will still take down deer, the 55 grain TBBC looks like the one I would go with now. Hunters will no longer have to worry about whether their rifles barrel twist will stabilize the heavier bullets. If you shoot good groups with your .22 centerfire and 55 grain varmint bullets chances are you will with the TBBC as well.
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Old October 23, 2008, 12:22 PM   #45
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Native Alaskans routinely shoot moose, griz, walrus and Polar bear with 22-250

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Old October 25, 2008, 11:44 PM   #46
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While the conventional wisdom was that Varmint cartridges were bad deer cartridges, it was really a case of varmint bullets make bad big game bullets.

Loading a Nosler partition, TBBC, or CT Gold type bullet into a .22 250 makes a lot of sense for smaller deer, WHile maybe not the best choice for 200 or more pound dress weight deer, for the many deer in America where 125 dressed weight is a big animal, they are near perfect particularly if you compare a .22 250 to a .222 or .223, where the velocity with a heavier bullet might be harder to get.

WHile I personally would prefer to you use the parent cartridge for deer, (the 250 savage) the .22 250 is not a bad small deer round ONLY when loaded with bullets rated for big game, and not varmints.
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Old October 26, 2008, 03:04 AM   #47
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Do not confuse CWD with BSE (mad cow disease). They are not the same and have significantly different symptoms. BSE is cause by a bad protein that eats away the brain. CWD causes the animal to waste away like they are starved.
They are both prion diseases and both result in the destruction of the brain.

To my knowledge, there have been no confirmed cases of CWD being transferred to a human, but there was a time when the same could have been said of BSE. I'm not saying that CWD is a danger to humans, but it is something to be aware of and to treat with respect.
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Old October 26, 2008, 05:50 AM   #48
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Lots of opinions I looked at the AZ regs and couldn't find a LEGAL definition for use on game animals.. Here is the one from Oregon I would assume that its similar in AZ been too many years since I hunted down there.

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Old October 26, 2008, 06:14 AM   #49
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If the velocity of the 22-250 is reduced to 22 Hornet levels, it does well on game.

Several of my African friends use the 22 Hornet for plains game.

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Old November 16, 2008, 01:51 AM   #50
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My take on the 22-250 for medium game:

Biggest Animal a 22-250 will take down?: this looks like a reputable website to me:

Approximate answer: up to 150 lb game out to about 150 yds. Depends on bullet weight (55 gr and up is better), muzzle velocity, BC and Sectional densities. I ran a few examples using factory data from Corbon, and CustomCartridge using Barnes bullets and got the above numbers.

1-Only use big game bullets (not varmint), Barnes TSX, and others mentioned here, lots of good advice from experts.

2-The biggest drawback I can see is 22-250 factory barrels don't seem to come with faster than 1:12" twist rates, heavier bullets like faster twist in general to stabilize them giving better accuracy. Some 223 barrels come with faster rates (from the factory) and overlap with the 22-250 because they can shoot heavier bullets. Aftermarket barrels can fix this for a price.

3-Lots of experienced advice here says heart-lung shots and maybe neck. Studying the anatomy is a good ethical idea also. Pig hearts are between the front elbows, not behind the front shoulder like a deer for example.

4-Better Marksmanship=More ethical.

5-There is understandably alot of 'use a cannon (30-06/7mm mag)' advice assuming you are inexperienced and will make bad shots, are unethical, a wimp about recoil, will use rabbit bullets or some combination of the above, so just make sure its dead no matter how far or what angle by using a cannon. Not crazy advice.

I'd say there is a wide range of adequate calibers, 22-250 is on the light end but perfectly adequate if used properly. There is no black or white answer and arguing doesn't help at all.

If I have overlooked something please let me know, always willing to learn.
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