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Old August 7, 2008, 10:59 PM   #26
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ALL defensive cartridges can - and will - penetrate sheetrock and continue to seriously injure or kill.

At the range I work part-time at we shot FRANGIBLE ammo into sheetrock separated by a two-by-four as one would have in a home. It penetrated both sheets of sheetrock and went into the second sheet or sheetrock placed about eight feet away... and continued into another sheet as fragments. Lesson: frangible 5.56 will kill someone in an adjacent room if it hits them (assuming it did not run thru anything before it hit the initial wall.

Pistol JHP ammo had no issues running thru several "walls" we constructed; no fragmentation just plowing thru.

Lesson: Every trigger pull counts. You MUST solidly hit your target. Always.
"Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves." ~ William Pitt, 1783
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Old August 7, 2008, 11:41 PM   #27
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+1 on the cable lock

I'd sink a large eye-screw into a stud in the closet wall, hang the AR using the carrying handle, with the cable threaded through the action, and some kind of ammo carrier attached to the weapon.

SHTF, you unlock and go, loading on the way. The cable lock through the action disables it from little hands, and although easily defeated, having it locked to an anchor point will at least discourage the casual unauthorized taking of it.

I'd have two keys, one offsite in a safe location, the other on my key ring.

p.s. I think the AR is a fine choice for home defense. I'd have a tac light on mine. If only I could have an AR here in Kalifornia....
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Old August 8, 2008, 01:56 AM   #28
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EasyG my shotgun sits with a cable lock on it under the bed because there are roomates around and I just feel safer. When we sleep at my house it sits lock free loaded in the corner, however I unload it during the day. Her apt is her and 2 other girls, neither of which like guns and won't want anything to do with it if the happen across it. I live in a apt with three other dudes, they might play with it, I have come home and it was slightly askew from when I left it, so I unload and put the ammo seperatly. We sleep at her house more anyway. Half the time i don't have a gun where i sleep, thats when i rely on the backup, A maglite and a claw hammer. : )

it's a complicated process, but its safe.

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Last edited by New_Pollution1086; August 8, 2008 at 01:59 AM. Reason: forgot something
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Old August 8, 2008, 06:19 AM   #29
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Just trying to get an idea of what methods are being used for safe storage of a defensive AR (primary home defense) at home with young inquisitive children? Thanks...

With inquisitive young children in the home, educate them at the range as to what the weapon does and what it is for. That will remove a great deal of the chnace they will try to crack your safeties on the weapon, while you are away. No matter what the safety of your choice is, be it a safe or trigger lock of some sort, there's always a way to bypass it.

My suggestions of a trigger lock and keeping the ammo seperate are tough decisions as those circumstances will really slow your reaction in a time of need. Tough call Lt. Dangle; What'd you decide? Stay on Reno 911 or relocate to Miami?
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Old August 9, 2008, 11:34 PM   #30
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Definitely education is the key. We were taught about gun safety at an early age, even though Dad had only a Colt Pocket .32 Auto. I did not "get it out and play with it" when friends came over and the parents weren't home. I must admit that my HD weapon is a HK .45 rather than an AR-15, as it is simply easier to wield for the most part in my rather humble abode. But the locked and loaded AR will escape the safe in times of high tensions, such as a BOLO in the area, and especially when the helicopters appear overhead with searchlights. I don't want to sound like this happens all the time, but it does happen occasionally. Even then I don't expect trouble of the worst kind, but I'd be foolish not to be prepared the best I can when all indicators are flashing red. For the most part, it remains in the safe. My safe opens quickly, and I'm always armed with at least a backup.

Even one of those rather small Sentry safes would be good against children's curiosity and they fit practically anywhere.
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Old August 10, 2008, 04:56 AM   #31
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that's when some training beyond paper punching and handling techniques may come in handy. Some don't get that and think training is all drills to punch holes fast.
For some strange reason I get the feeling that this is directed at me LOL. Done this to though. I had to learn how to clear a building because I would often be called out to burglar alarms at the shop I manage. Often the police would already be gone before I arrived and I would check the interior alone. Not fun at all (thank god I'm not a cop).
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Old August 10, 2008, 05:16 AM   #32
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A story for you guys involving kids and guns. My dad use to take me hunting and I grew up with a bb gun then a 10-22 then a shotgun then a ruger mk series pistol etc. We would occasionally go to the range and shoot also. My mother would tell you that I was the perfect child never back talking and always did what I was told. After I got my shotgun but before I got my pistol I did something very out of character for me. I was so curious about my dads revolver (a little 36 snubby) that I climbed into the closet and took it down. I removed it from the leather holster and pointed it at a wall of mirrors in my parents bedroom. At this point I pulled back the hammer. Then I realized that it was loaded............the reflection revealed so and goose bump ran up my body. I lay the gun down as I didn't know how to lower the hammer. I was in panic mode because my father would now know that I had broken his rule not to touch his gun. I thought to myself how can I fix this mess? I devised what to this day I feel was a brilliant plan and it worked. I placed a pencil between the hammer and gun and pulled the trigger. The hammer fell on the pencil and I pulled the pencil sideways leaving only yellow paint around the hammer as evidence. I returned the revolver to its holster and hiding space.

My reason for playing with dad's gun was curiosity. Children's reasons for touching a gun may be different but curiosity will be very high on the list of every child.

P.S. Dad never found out although several years ago I told him and he laughed. Not at the fact that I could have hurt or killed myself or others but about the yellow pencil paint. He couldn't figure out why his revolver had paint scrapings in the action. Now he knows LOL.
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Old August 10, 2008, 02:21 PM   #33
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For this reason I keep home defense longarms stored safety off with the hammer down on an empty chamber and a loaded magazine. That way they can be readied by simply cycling the action.
Me too, but mostly because that's the way I'm trained and the way I carry my rifle at work. You never have to check the safety that way. Don't have to press check or wonder if you have one in the chamber. Rack and fire.

I understand that some people think that racking a rifle or shotgun at home is a tactical liability and I see their point. I have no problem with someone leaving a weapon hot chamber in a gun safe. But since I am required to carry it hot standby at work, I do that at home too.

As for kids, I worry more about friends of my kids more than my own. I think having an empty chamber is a measure of security in addition to most of the guns being locked up.

I stand (ok sit) corrected regarding penetration issues through walls. However, I will still trust my life more to .45ACP than .223 when shot directly at a perp standing 6 ft away from me.
With all due respect, Navy Lt, you need to put down the gun rags. I suspect you haven't seen many wounds. Please trust me that any rifle (centerfire) creates a big nasty mess when fired into a chest or abdomen, especially at close range. The wound is many, many fold more devasting than any pistol wound.

At close range, it looks something like this, even if the bad guy is a methhead Secondary training point, never focus too much on your target to miss the other threat on your flank. In this case, the rock thrower who is getting ready to put a coup de grace on the unconscious agent slumped over the wheel of the car to the right, fails to notice that backup has arrived. Classic tunnel vision.
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Old August 18, 2008, 12:22 PM   #34
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I hear the racking of a pump shotgun puts fear into the heart of a burgler and they will leave. Sooo I wired my house with speakers and put on a long play CD of someone racking a shotgun. When I hear a bump in the night I just turn on the CD and go back to sleep............Naahhh I grab my CAR15 and hunt down the animal who dares threaten my family.
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Old August 18, 2008, 12:52 PM   #35
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I know the M1A and the 870 shotgun arent, but isnt the AR15 "drop safe"?
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