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Old May 8, 2008, 06:17 PM   #26
Hk_Allday
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RE: "edit-on second thought,dont bother..."

I couldn't agree more, as it would seem counter productive and useless.

There already seems to be enough argumentative threads flying based soley on "personal opinion" or isolating on a word or phrase and seemingly missing the overarching point.

I agree, lets don't bother.
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Old May 8, 2008, 06:26 PM   #27
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i think "the overarching point" was pretty obvious.

Quote:
In short, if you're plinkin' at the range and looking for a platform with lots of cool toys and trinkets, I agree the AR is for you.
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Old May 8, 2008, 06:31 PM   #28
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Hk_Allday
Is there a collapsible or folder version of the Hk USC .45ACP available to mere mortals ??
Are Hi capacity mags/drums available ??



.
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Old May 8, 2008, 06:43 PM   #29
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Link the stories then.

I have heard crap on: Bushmaster and DPMS, that's what happens when you mass produce guns. I have a "hand-built" AR as well. what models of Oly's were the problem?
- They make a "low budget" Plinker. was it their high end gun? I'm not "banging a drum" for Oly. But they really get thrashed. IMHO I feel it's because they do offer some low-budget guns.

They can't be all bad, if they were, match-grade guys wouldn't seek out their barrels.

The problem with AR guys, is they run in Cliques'. They are as Bad as 1911 guys.

Would I pick an Oly over a colt or Stag...probably not, but would I care if I had one....Nope.
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Old May 8, 2008, 07:37 PM   #30
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i would but the search feature is terrible on ar15.com(unless you're a "team member" maybe?).

heres an active one(M4C)...

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=14182

i'll see if i can dig up some others later when i have time,if you'd like(shouldnt be difficult).
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Old May 8, 2008, 07:39 PM   #31
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I agree that the AR is much more versatile... however, the .223/5.56 round is FAR inferior for use in the battlespace. More & more reports from the field are indicating HT's taking direct hits from the M-16/M-4 platform and simply keep coming.
This is from what I gather as longer shooting distances in the desert, PLUS our guys being armed with the carbine version of the weapon. Easier to handle, but for the purpose I think they should have kept most everyone out there with the 20" barrel. Of course clearing houses is more difficult with the longer barrel.

Just get the 6.8mm upper and you'll fix all those concerns.
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Old May 8, 2008, 07:44 PM   #32
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You have to be objective with AR's. I know Olympic is not first rate. I got mine for CHEAP (like $450....it's all the guy wanted for it....hard up?)
It is a a far cry from a POS. I haven't been able to put it thru it's paces yet. My Ameetec puts them in a 1.25" group at 100 yds, piling the brass in a neat little pile, that's why they are $1000 guns

I want another AR, this time it will be a SBR CMMG build. But if the guy is on a budget, Oly arms is an acceptable route
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Old May 8, 2008, 07:44 PM   #33
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HK does make a version with both collapsible stock and hi-cap mags, which is called the UMP.

Good news is it comes in 9, 40 & 45 versions,

Bad news is it is select fire and ONLY available (through Hk) to LE/Military. Navy version lower has S/1/F while standard version has S/1/2/F.

NFA if you can find one in the US, which would have to be an USC/UMP conversion registered as a SBR, but production of the UMP didn't start until the 1990's, so no original UMP's would be permitted under the pre-1986 law.

:-( So far, no folder rigs or hi-cap mags for lowly "citizens".


Navy version pictured

Last edited by Hk_Allday; May 8, 2008 at 09:15 PM.
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Old May 9, 2008, 12:10 AM   #34
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Quote:
however, the .223/5.56 round is FAR inferior for use in the battlespace. More & more reports from the field are indicating HT's taking direct hits from the M-16/M-4 platform and simply keep coming.
BS.

No doubt, .223 is not the most potent round in the world. However, few people can take a COM hit with a .223 (or even a .22LR) and keep coming.

Shot placement.

Anyone who can take a .223 can probably take a 6.8 or a .308 just as well...

It is rare, but it has happened. Same goes for higher powered .30cal rounds. People have survived multiple rounds from 7.62x39, 8mm, 30-06, etc... How do you explain that? Does it mean that those rounds are weak? Was the shot placement off?

Maybe the military should invest in ray guns.
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Old May 9, 2008, 01:17 AM   #35
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+1 for the AR platform

there are TONS of toys, gadgets, doo-dads, bells & whistles, uppers and lowers available for the AR. From .17 to .50 cal


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeGoob
so basically, if im going to want to have my AR in more than one caliber, it would be to my advantage to get this Olympic arms version?
Any AR platform is compatible with aftermarket uppers.
As an example, you can buy a .50 Beowulf upper from Cabela's
Or a Bushmaster .450 upper.

Any upper will snap into place in 60 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irykjLjuKo8
Quote:
11 year old girl completely field strips her AR15 and then reassembles it in 53 seconds total

The AR is unmatched for versatility
Looky HERE for lots of useful information about AR-15s
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Old May 9, 2008, 09:33 AM   #36
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That is very informative THANK YOU! but man, you're making it look too easy to get one. How do I afford all i want!? SIGH My biggest weakness is versatility in a weapon.

Is it sacrilege to get an AR in 9mm, 308 and heaven forbid 7.62, without getting a .223 version?
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Old May 9, 2008, 09:42 AM   #37
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HK Allday:

Nice carbine. I have the same exact one. It is a beauty and I wouldn't get rid of it.
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Old May 9, 2008, 10:17 AM   #38
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For purely cosmetic purposes I would chose AR. However for HD/SD I would never rely on AR...always AK, but this is because where I live AR gas pipe is hard to keep clean. Thus jamming occurs, but after much use and no cleaning. Whereas sometimes I dont clean my Ak after months of shooting. That said I have both since there AR advantages which keeps me parting from it. I really like select fire in 5.56.
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Old May 9, 2008, 11:13 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeGoob
That is very informative THANK YOU! but man, you're making it look too easy to get one. How do I afford all i want!? SIGH My biggest weakness is versatility in a weapon.

Is it sacrilege to get an AR in 9mm, 308 and heaven forbid 7.62, without getting a .223 version
You're welcome - i never said anything about them being cheap! LoL

I suggest you get a 5.56-chambered upper, NOT .223-chamber, or 9mm.


Quote:
Originally Posted by firepower!
For purely cosmetic purposes I would chose AR. However for HD/SD I would never rely on AR...always AK, but this is because where I live AR gas pipe is hard to keep clean. Thus jamming occurs, but after much use and no cleaning. Whereas sometimes I dont clean my Ak after months of shooting. That said I have both since there AR advantages which keeps me parting from it. I really like select fire in 5.56
That makes no sense...
You're blaming the AR for malfunctions even though you don't maintain it?
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Old May 9, 2008, 12:07 PM   #40
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I don't think its sacriledge.

Just as a note, there are two types of ar's.

The smaller AR's which are chambered for 9mm/45/223/556/50beowulf/458socom/50BMG/etc etc, and then THen the larger 308 ar's which are in 308 size calibers, and you cannot interchange uppers from one to the other.

I would suggest the smaller ar, because that is where the most options are - be they 223, 7.62x39, 9mm, 45, 50BMG, .458 socom, etc.

In the smaller ar's, any lower can take nearly any upper, although you may need different magazines, or a block that goes in your magazine well so it can take pistol magazines. For example, i could able to buy an olympic arms 10mm upper and throw it on my rock river arms lower. Except for colt. Because they don't like us.

Just know that lowers are (comparatively) cheap, around 1/3 the cost of the rifle, or less. So i predict that if you have more than one upper, you will soon have a lower for each one.
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Old May 9, 2008, 12:53 PM   #41
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Quote:
That makes no sense...
You're blaming the AR for malfunctions even though you don't maintain it?
ntm...

"the gas pipe is hard to keep clean"?

i dont know anyone who cleans their "gas pipe"...never heard of it ever causing an issue either.you know the pressure that gets put through there?i was under the impression that was the ultimate "self cleaning" part.
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Old May 9, 2008, 02:19 PM   #42
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well, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I kind of need a 9mm (or other common pistol round except 22) because I plan to do most of my shooting at an indoor range where only pistol calibers are allowed.

I read that you have to change out the hammer or other internals when shooting a pistol round?
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Old May 9, 2008, 03:44 PM   #43
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is this worth looking into?

http://buildyourownar15.com/
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Old May 9, 2008, 05:40 PM   #44
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AR issues

Well FTFs are very high in dirty ARs usually caused by dirty gas pipes.

Yes I blame AR for jamming because where I live the type of usage I demand from AR makes it very difficult to clean all the time.

I live in Pakistan in a very dusty enviornment, and my assualt rifles are usually with gurads who are hard to micro manage when it comes to gun cleaning.

That is why I like AK since less maintanance and relaible in gun fight.
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Old May 9, 2008, 05:43 PM   #45
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MikeGoob...
Check out jtdistributing.com for AR kits, you can get everything you need with the exception of a stripped lower. (But they make those too... Doublestar) Builds can be done cheaper if you know exactly what you want and where to get it.
As soon as I get home from vacation my new 'Economy Stimulator' should be at the door in the form of 2 boxes from Midway and Brownell's... I'm building an AR literally piece by piece according to what I wanted, can't wait to get it together. Did it for well under $1000 too, I'l post pics of the build as it goes along when I get home!
As you start accesorizing, you'll probably find like I did a long time ago that "less is more." A 9mm conversion kit is nice to have though.
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Old May 9, 2008, 06:00 PM   #46
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Quote:
Well FTFs are very high in dirty ARs usually caused by dirty gas pipes.
you are talking about the gas tube(that runs from the gas block on the barrel back to the carrier)...correct?

ive never heard of any issue with those other than leaks or breakages.

even if it were to get dirty/clogged(which would be difficult i would think,with the pressure that runs through it),im not sure how that could cause a FTF?

FTE maybe?if the round extracts...shouldnt the buffer spring be the only acting force on feeding?i dont see how the gas tube would interfere.
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Old May 9, 2008, 06:49 PM   #47
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4 years in the military, and 3 AR's later, I ave NEVER had to clean a Gas tube...way to small for anything I have.
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Old May 9, 2008, 09:19 PM   #48
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In my very humble opinion, the HK UMP's SUCK when compared to the MP5, and I really don't like them in general. We have 1 MP5 at work, and got 2 UMP40's a few years ago. The UMP (to me personally) is extremely uncomfortable and awkward to handle and fire, it is bulky and feels fragile, and as far as firing full auto it has a much slower rate of fire. It is depressing they have discontinued the MP5's for these things, but now at least I moved up to a bolt gun and a ghillie instead of a UMP and the ram!!! Sorry to hi-jack, I just saw all the HK pics and had to chime in...
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Old May 9, 2008, 09:44 PM   #49
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Quote:
In my very humble opinion, the HK UMP's SUCK when compared to the MP5,
Can't offer much in the way of a rebuttal with regard to the UMP, as I have never seen one. The USC, however, I think is a fine weapon which I comfortably endorse for the reasons previously stated.

BTW, I think the MP5 is a fine weapon as well, although I am generally not a fan of the light 9mm round. However, if I had to carry a 9, I would want it to throw 800 rpm.
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