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Old February 4, 2008, 02:28 PM   #1
maestro pistolero
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Kimber Pro TLE/RLII debacle conclusion

Alright, for anyone following my Kimber Pro TLE/RLII story. Here's the latest:

I was getting failures to feed (4%) with the replacement gun they sent. I sent it back (now my fourth trip to fedex the gun to Kimber) Dennis received the gun, said he and an assistant shot the gun and had no failures whatsoever, that he was going to clean and lube and sent it right back.

HMMM. I shot the gun and now I had no FTF's either, even when intentionally limp wristing the gun, i.e. thumb and forefinger style!

$25 more in shipping for nothing? Maybe not.

Dennis is not being truthful here. That's the nicest way I can put it. The gun came back with new hand throating of the barrel ramp that I never noticed before, a pretty good job but obviously done by hand. And it had a new guide rod assembly.

How do I know? The hole for the take down tool is now directly under the barrel, and therefore useless for field stripping the gun by method one in the manual. I ask Steve in customer relations about it, he said it's not unusual for the take down hole to be inaccessible, that I should now use method two. Easy enough, but why document a feature in the manual that only some of the protle/rlII's have?

So why did Dennis tell me he was going to do nothing but clean and lube the gun and send it right back?

The point is, rather than admit any problem with the replacement gun, he implies repeatedly that there has never been anything wrong with either gun, and that I (a 48 year old lifetime firearms enthusiast) am somehow unable to make a gun go bang with any regularity.

Steve and Dennis also both made a point of telling me that the original gun was sold to an employee, and that she has had no trouble with the gun at all.

Funny, when Dennis replaced that gun he said he knew why it wasn't working, that the "barrel was too tight". And that was the reason for FTRTB's I was experiencing. I told Steve that and he had no comment.

Conclusion: Kimber employees Dennis in the Custom Shop and Steve in customer relations seem at least as interested in proving this customer wrong, as they are proving their gun right. I think it's disrespectful and condescending. And it says a lot about who they must think a Kimber customer is.
CYA I guess

Last edited by maestro pistolero; February 4, 2008 at 10:13 PM.
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Old February 4, 2008, 03:33 PM   #2
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If I had that type of experience with a company I would never buy their product again even if they were the best AND the cheapest one around.
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Old February 4, 2008, 04:16 PM   #3
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had similar experience with kimber years ago. i believe they`re quality and tolerances were a bit better back then. nevertheless i was made to feel by them that if it said kimber, the problem surely must have been me. long story short, i don`t own any kimbers. not going to pay that kind of money and get run-a-round.
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Old February 4, 2008, 05:30 PM   #4
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I keep looking at the Pro CDP, and despite being a gorgeous piece, I can't bring myself to pay that kind of $$$, and get a dud. Or deal with that kind of CS.
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Old February 4, 2008, 06:09 PM   #5
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Dennis is a OK guy IMHO

I have delt with Dennis over the years and I trust him when he says he shoots a Kimber 1911 and it works.
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Old February 4, 2008, 06:14 PM   #6
maestro pistolero
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He always seemed honorable to me, but this last round caused me to doubt. He may well have had no failures as he said. He also said he did nothing to the gun but fire it, clean it and lube it, and that is not really true.

The gun is feeding now, no FTF's for a whopping 125 rnds in a row. I hope it continues.

Thanks for adding your experience with Dennis to this discussion.

Last edited by maestro pistolero; February 4, 2008 at 09:32 PM.
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Old February 4, 2008, 06:17 PM   #7
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I am grateful I obtained my Kimber TLE before they started getting the whole slew of problems. Its never had a failure that wasnt related to magazines or jsut being dirty.
I've replaced a few parts, only one that actually broke was the aftermarket slide stop.
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Old February 4, 2008, 06:19 PM   #8
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Well, two ways of looking at it. They may think they are the second coming of Rolls Royce, which would come get your car anywhere, give you a loaner, fix your car, and never admit anything was wrong. Just their style.

Or, they maybe having such serious production and return problems that they don't want to admit it, for fear of a class action law suit. Seems to me I remember a hard drive called the 'DeathStar' that everyone on the net said was failing like crazy, but, since it was the fastest, cheapest drive avaliable at the time, people either defended it, or hated it. Class action lawsuit turned up 35-40% failure rates, which breaches the implied warranty of suitability for the job intended, and, they settled.

After reading all this stuff I find myself in a pretty bad corner. The only CCO I've found in 5 years in my area was a Kimber. The only CCO I can buy new is a Kimber, in PRK.

If I buy a Kimber 'Pro' unlike my Custom II, I'm not buying a frame, slide, and match grade barrel for 680 dollars, knowing the rest of the components are garbage. I'm spending 1000-1200 dollars, and, I'm not even sure if the slide, barrel, and frame are decent components at this point. So, after installing Ed Brown parts, and setting it up for 45 Super, I'm in about 1700 dollars, with a real gamble on all components of the gun at this point.

I think I'll just buy a Glock, much as I like the 1911 platform, and, like being able to use my Wilson mags, and 45 ammo.
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Old February 4, 2008, 06:28 PM   #9
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Sorry, CCO is what, a Commander size? Pardon my ignorance.
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Old February 4, 2008, 06:40 PM   #10
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Concealed Carry Option?
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Old February 4, 2008, 07:13 PM   #11
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Sorry:

CCO is a 4-4.25" barrel and action, commander sized, with an officer length frame.
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Old February 4, 2008, 07:43 PM   #12
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Many time before

We have been through this Kimber failing deal many time.
Recoil Springs/Cleaning /Quality Lub. and lots of it/Breakin 500 rounds Min./The right stuff Ammo. Quality 230gr Ball FMJ./ No limp wristing allowed/quality Mags Wilson Combat& Metalform as an example.
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Old February 4, 2008, 07:54 PM   #13
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HappyGunner:

It appears that it may have got MUCH worse. If you've followed these posts, some of the problems are in machining of major components that had in the past, been excellent quality. Perhaps Kimber is no longer buying them as they used to, and, are now producing their own, and screwing things up?

Here's a link to a thread with a number of beautiful CCO's in it:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=277803
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Old February 4, 2008, 08:16 PM   #14
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Pictures please.

I sure would like to see a few pictures of the poor quality of Kimber parts. I am not implying that there not out there I just would like a few examples.
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Old February 4, 2008, 08:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
If I buy a Kimber 'Pro' unlike my Custom II, I'm not buying a frame, slide, and match grade barrel for 680 dollars, knowing the rest of the components are garbage. I'm spending 1000-1200 dollars, and, I'm not even sure if the slide, barrel, and frame are decent components at this point. So, after installing Ed Brown parts, and setting it up for 45 Super, I'm in about 1700 dollars, with a real gamble on all components of the gun at this point.
Sounds like we use the same approach with a different brand. I buy used 1991A1s basically for the receiver, slide, and barrel; then have everything replaced with Ed Brown parts except the FCG. I use C&S parts for that.
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Old February 4, 2008, 08:57 PM   #16
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My God, I am too lazy and a few beers too far to be playing with guns right now (meaning I'm not gonna take it apart and take a pic tonight,) but I'll tell you right now, the disconnector in my Kimber looks like poop. It is all crooked straight from the factory, and looks as though a Taiwanese gun smith took after it with a chain saw... Other than that, the weapon is great!
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Old February 4, 2008, 09:23 PM   #17
maestro pistolero
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Quote:
. . . No limp wristing allowed . . .
You wanna laugh? After all the aggravation with this gun, I actually limp-wristed a whole magazine on purpose to see what it would do. NO FAILURES!

Can you believe that?
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Old February 4, 2008, 09:35 PM   #18
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I don't own a Kimber, but the ones I've fired have been fine pistols. This thread and watching a guy on Saturday fire his Kimber single shot because it really didn't like the Georgia Arms ammo he was shooting gives one pause for thought.
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Old February 4, 2008, 09:55 PM   #19
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Went to the range Sat. when I guy walked in and immediately stripped his 1911 and started oiling.

When I asked him what he was doing he explained: "I just spent $1000 F-ing dollars on this POS gun, and they told me It won't be reliable for another 400 rounds."

I don't know what model Kimber it was, but he said he bought it the day before and it was jamming every-other round. When he called CS they told him to run 500 rounds thru it, that they "build em' tight"

Needless to say he was extremley miffed at round 550 when it was still jamming. (I was there to see it) Does anyone know what a Kimber footbal looks like? Cause thats what it looked like when he threw it down range.

The sad thing is, this guy is a NOOB that obviously bought into the hype.
When he asked what i had I showed him my Springer. He said he thought about buying it, but somebody at the store told him the Springer was junk compared to the Kimber....ah, the "guys at the gunstore" strike again!
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Old February 4, 2008, 10:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
When he asked what i had I showed him my Springer. He said he thought about buying it, but somebody at the store told him the Springer was junk compared to the Kimber....ah, the "guys at the gunstore" strike again!
Yea, I've had a couple of goofs get offended when I told them I didn't ask their opinion, but I'd be willing to listen to it if they were willing to buy me whatever gun they were suggesting. It's unfortunate when new shooters get talked into bad guns.
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Old February 4, 2008, 10:20 PM   #21
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A million times....Or more

I think I have read this same thing a million times or more. I don't know where people get all this wonderful stuff to post.
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Old February 4, 2008, 10:44 PM   #22
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You mean you are supposed to clean them before you fire them the first time? Gee, I bought my Taurus and 100 rounds and went straight to the range, fired the 100 rounds, then took it home and cleaned it. No jams, FTF's, etc.

I never met a 1911 I didn't like: Taurus, Springer, Llama, Para, Kimber, Colt, military issue.
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Old February 4, 2008, 11:29 PM   #23
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I don't know what model Kimber it was, but he said he bought it the day before and it was jamming every-other round. When he called CS they told him to run 500 rounds thru it, that they "build em' tight"
Yeah, Kimber jargon.

Jargon: "We build them tight!"
Translation: Horribly out of spec and we hope 500 rounds on your dime fixes the lack of proper fitting and finishing we do at the factory.

Jargon: "Kimbers have match chambers"
Translation: Our chambers are horribly out of spec and often cause failures to feed. Shoot it 500 times to find out no amount of "break in" can fix an out of spec chamber. Then send it back to us (on your dime) and we'll replace the barrel with a new one or ream your old one. Then fire another 500 rounds and let us know if it works for you.

No thanks. I'll buy a Springfield, same myself a couple hundred dollars in "break in" ammo and shipping costs then buy a nice holster along with some practice ammo.
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Old February 5, 2008, 12:26 AM   #24
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wheres my kimber issues?

i feel left out!

i've fired over 1500 rounds of blazer brass through 1 stock magazine and 4 cheapie mccormick shooting star magazines. About 250 rds of UMC, 500 rds of WWB and number hollow points of varying types.


And no issues... *shrug*
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Old February 5, 2008, 08:44 PM   #25
maestro pistolero
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One of the lucky ones. Good for you, man.
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