Failure to Fire

Phxdog · April 26, 2006, 10:27 PM

Recently at the range I was firing a 14" T/C in 45/70. Five or six rounds out of 50 did not fire the 1st time I let the hammer drop.

After counting to 30, I opened the pistol looked at the problematic rounds (each time, a light depression on the primer), then loaded the same shell & refired with no problem.

This used to happen with a 7MMTCU barrel on this same frame, but never with the 45/70. These were reloads (2nd mild loading).

I had a 'Smith' work on the action years ago. . . it is a VERY light trigger.

What should I look at to solve this?

DnPRK · April 27, 2006, 12:27 PM

Contenders have inertial firing pins. Check them for freedom of movement (not gummed up with coagulated oil) and firing pin protrusion.

You can send the receiver back to TC for service with a note of explanation of the problem. I have done it with mine and they were prompt and efficient.

Scorch · April 27, 2006, 01:56 PM

If the smith lightened the mainspring in order to lighten the trigger pull, yo might have to replace the mainspring. But otherwise just as stated above, clean the firing pin to remove crud and test it. If it still misfires, send it to the factory.

Phxdog · April 28, 2006, 04:19 PM

I will clean it per the suggestions.

I wonder if the factory will even look at a frame that has been worked on by a gunsmith not working for the Thompson factory?

I guess I'll give TC a call.

Thanks for the input.

Harry Bonar · April 28, 2006, 08:59 PM

Dear Shooter:
The Thompson Center muzzle-loaders were good, out of the box rifles, but the Encore, and its ilk I will not have in my shop! The Contender also!
I know they are popular, I know they shoot, but I wouldn't shoot one or hunt with one! I'll get flak for this but our boys in the "Big One" flew through lots of it!
I don't like the Encores looks, I don't like the bbl. change idea and they are not handguns, but hand cannons! They are chambered for rifle cartridges that belong in rifles, not handguns!
Harry B.

garryc · April 30, 2006, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Dear Shooter:
The Thompson Center muzzle-loaders were good, out of the box rifles, but the Encore, and its ilk I will not have in my shop! The Contender also!
I know they are popular, I know they shoot, but I wouldn't shoot one or hunt with one! I'll get flak for this but our boys in the "Big One" flew through lots of it!
I don't like the Encores looks, I don't like the bbl. change idea and they are not handguns, but hand cannons! They are chambered for rifle cartridges that belong in rifles, not handguns!
Harry B.

Why would you make such a choice for your customers? That?s like saying," I won't have a magnum rifle in my shop because magnums are over rated and just not necessary." OR; " I won't have a Winchester trapper or marlin 1894 in my shop because they fire rounds that belong in a pistol." The encores and contenders are solid working designs and are bought by people who know what they want.
Hey, that's what we all want in a gun dealer or other salesman, un-qualified BIAS.

hivel37 · April 30, 2006, 10:05 AM

Please calm down, Harry B.

Lots of folks use T/C's for hunting and even more for fun shooting. Thousands are used in silhouette shooting because they are accurate and very reliable. Please reconsider.

I suspect this problem is a little crud in the wrong place, as already noted.

Harry, I respect your views and look forward to your posts.

Harry Bonar · April 30, 2006, 07:07 PM

Dear Contender and Encore owners:
I apologize - I didn't sleep last nite after my post!

Us old cantankerous farts have a right to get raunchy and cantakerous once in a while. I hate the things! Can't help it - it is an irrational thing with me.
To me a rifles looks like a rifle, not some twisted freak! A muzzle-loader to me is not a "bubble-packed" abortion that uses no real black powder and a sabot (from the French) and a pistol bullet - a real muzzle-loader is a long-rifle that used flint or percussion cap with a real Goex 2FG powder charge and a greased patched round ball!
My last big gun was a 62 cal Hawken style that I made the set triggers by hand! It is a rifle.
UH! OH! there I'm at it again, aren't I?
Us old fellas just can't behave.
Good posts fellas!
Harry B.

garryc · April 30, 2006, 07:23 PM

Actually Harry, had you said that ohio's primitive weapon season for ML's should require a side lock or under lock ignition system I would agree

Hunter Customs · April 30, 2006, 09:24 PM

If the gun does not misfire with factory ammo I would take a close look at my reloads.
Maybe the primers on some of the reloads were not seated all the way. If this is the case the first strike will seat them and the second strike will fire them.
What primers are you using? You might want to try some with softer cups.
Federal primers are known for soft cups.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

SakoL61R · April 30, 2006, 10:09 PM

Phxdog,
Check the below link fwiw. Mike is a Contender guru.

I had the same problem (with bottleneck cases) in my "early" Contender years. Never with straight walled cases, though. Might be a weak hammer spring.
Sako

http://www.bellmtcs.com/FAQ/contender_misfires.htm

ddtdhunter · May 1, 2006, 02:09 PM

Are you using a hammer extension on it? That was a problem that my uncle had with his personally mine has not did it.

Harry Bonar · May 3, 2006, 10:06 AM

Dear Shooters:
I do have a positive suggestion

On the Contenders (see - I capitalized this)

- unless I don't remember correctly - the bbl. group doesn't seal the breech, but there is a small gap there and headspace is fixed with the head of cartridge protruding, slightly. If I've remembered correctly, over-sizing bottleneck cases would give this problem - of course, with the 45-70 it's rimmed so that wouldn't be true!
Concerning guns (all kinds) all of us have our likes and dislikes - like women -- UH! - I like all of those, blondes, redheads, brunettes - I see I've given too much information (I'm 70 this summer). But- I've got a 20 year-old mind.
Wife and I laying in bed the other night - everything quiet and peaceful - that is until she turned to me and quietly said, "I didn't know I'd end up with a sex maniac." I was shocked!

So long, guys Harry B.

Phxdog · May 4, 2006, 10:22 AM

Harry,

I, for one, appreciate honesty more than diplomacy and would rather 'hear it from the heart.' You're not cantankerous, you're colorful and we wouldn't want to change you!

Thanks for your input-

April 26, 2006, 10:27 PM	#1
Phxdog Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Phoenix Posts: 236	Failure to Fire Recently at the range I was firing a 14" T/C in 45/70. Five or six rounds out of 50 did not fire the 1st time I let the hammer drop. After counting to 30, I opened the pistol looked at the problematic rounds (each time, a light depression on the primer), then loaded the same shell & refired with no problem. This used to happen with a 7MMTCU barrel on this same frame, but never with the 45/70. These were reloads (2nd mild loading). I had a 'Smith' work on the action years ago. . . it is a VERY light trigger. What should I look at to solve this? Last edited by Phxdog; April 27, 2006 at 12:10 PM.

April 27, 2006, 01:56 PM	#3
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	If the smith lightened the mainspring in order to lighten the trigger pull, yo might have to replace the mainspring. But otherwise just as stated above, clean the firing pin to remove crud and test it. If it still misfires, send it to the factory. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

April 28, 2006, 08:59 PM	#5
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	Thompson Center Dear Shooter: The Thompson Center muzzle-loaders were good, out of the box rifles, but the Encore, and its ilk I will not have in my shop! The Contender also! I know they are popular, I know they shoot, but I wouldn't shoot one or hunt with one! I'll get flak for this but our boys in the "Big One" flew through lots of it! I don't like the Encores looks, I don't like the bbl. change idea and they are not handguns, but hand cannons! They are chambered for rifle cartridges that belong in rifles, not handguns! Harry B.

April 30, 2006, 07:07 PM	#8
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	failure to fire Dear Contender and Encore owners: I apologize - I didn't sleep last nite after my post! Us old cantankerous farts have a right to get raunchy and cantakerous once in a while. I hate the things! Can't help it - it is an irrational thing with me. To me a rifles looks like a rifle, not some twisted freak! A muzzle-loader to me is not a "bubble-packed" abortion that uses no real black powder and a sabot (from the French) and a pistol bullet - a real muzzle-loader is a long-rifle that used flint or percussion cap with a real Goex 2FG powder charge and a greased patched round ball! My last big gun was a 62 cal Hawken style that I made the set triggers by hand! It is a rifle. UH! OH! there I'm at it again, aren't I? Us old fellas just can't behave. Good posts fellas! Harry B.

May 1, 2006, 02:09 PM	#12
ddtdhunter Junior Member Join Date: February 15, 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 7	hammer extension? Are you using a hammer extension on it? That was a problem that my uncle had with his personally mine has not did it.

April 27, 2006, 12:27 PM	#2
DnPRK Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2001 Location: LC, Ca Posts: 1,917	Contenders have inertial firing pins. Check them for freedom of movement (not gummed up with coagulated oil) and firing pin protrusion. You can send the receiver back to TC for service with a note of explanation of the problem. I have done it with mine and they were prompt and efficient.

April 28, 2006, 04:19 PM	#4
Phxdog Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Phoenix Posts: 236	I will clean it per the suggestions. I wonder if the factory will even look at a frame that has been worked on by a gunsmith not working for the Thompson factory? I guess I'll give TC a call. Thanks for the input.

April 30, 2006, 10:05 AM	#7
hivel37 Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2004 Location: Hill Country Posts: 522	Please calm down, Harry B. Lots of folks use T/C's for hunting and even more for fun shooting. Thousands are used in silhouette shooting because they are accurate and very reliable. Please reconsider. I suspect this problem is a little crud in the wrong place, as already noted. Harry, I respect your views and look forward to your posts.

April 30, 2006, 07:23 PM	#9
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	Actually Harry, had you said that ohio's primitive weapon season for ML's should require a side lock or under lock ignition system I would agree

April 30, 2006, 09:24 PM	#10
Hunter Customs Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: Osborn, Missouri Posts: 2,697	If the gun does not misfire with factory ammo I would take a close look at my reloads. Maybe the primers on some of the reloads were not seated all the way. If this is the case the first strike will seat them and the second strike will fire them. What primers are you using? You might want to try some with softer cups. Federal primers are known for soft cups. Regards Bob Hunter www.huntercustoms.com

April 30, 2006, 10:09 PM	#11
SakoL61R Member Join Date: July 4, 2005 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 27	Phxdog, Check the below link fwiw. Mike is a Contender guru. I had the same problem (with bottleneck cases) in my "early" Contender years. Never with straight walled cases, though. Might be a weak hammer spring. Sako http://www.bellmtcs.com/FAQ/contender_misfires.htm

May 3, 2006, 10:06 AM	#13
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	lite strike Dear Shooters: I do have a positive suggestion On the Contenders (see - I capitalized this) - unless I don't remember correctly - the bbl. group doesn't seal the breech, but there is a small gap there and headspace is fixed with the head of cartridge protruding, slightly. If I've remembered correctly, over-sizing bottleneck cases would give this problem - of course, with the 45-70 it's rimmed so that wouldn't be true! Concerning guns (all kinds) all of us have our likes and dislikes - like women -- UH! - I like all of those, blondes, redheads, brunettes - I see I've given too much information (I'm 70 this summer). But- I've got a 20 year-old mind. Wife and I laying in bed the other night - everything quiet and peaceful - that is until she turned to me and quietly said, "I didn't know I'd end up with a sex maniac." I was shocked! So long, guys Harry B.

May 4, 2006, 10:22 AM	#14
Phxdog Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Location: Phoenix Posts: 236	Harry, I, for one, appreciate honesty more than diplomacy and would rather 'hear it from the heart.' You're not cantankerous, you're colorful and we wouldn't want to change you! Thanks for your input-