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Old April 10, 2006, 07:34 PM   #51
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Uhh...I mean "what News said"
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Old April 10, 2006, 08:01 PM   #52
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yep, i watch as many shooters as possible. on the rifle range theres almost always one guy with a semi-auto that can lay down an impressive field of fire all across the berm, without ever hitting his target. so one time i thought "i'll try firing as fast as possible, and see what i can do". hard as i try, with my rifle shouldered, i just cannot get out of a 12 inch circle at 100 yards. maybe someday i'll be more talented.

on the handgun range, it gets downright scary. i feel like i'm the only one who hits the target. unless i'm shooting next to Wildalaska. then i KNOW i'm the only one hitting my target.
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Old April 16, 2006, 08:57 AM   #53
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well guys i tell ya what. i have all styles of guns. i enjoy each one's shooting style. each gun has a served purpose. so when i go to the range, i feel its like taking the kids to the park it never ceases to amaze me how many idiots have been allowed to purchase a gun. maybe we should have an IQ test or at least a common sense test before purchase is allowed .but where i really get my kicks is when i take my wife (we are in our 20's and 30's both ex-military) she doesn't much care for pistol shooting. sees it as a last resort so does it ,but would rather get busy w/ a rifle. so after all these " self-appointed " cock strong ,bad-ass, show off ,can't hit the target marksmen get done. she mosies up to the deck, takes the prone position(at the range mind you) and will proceed to drive tacks at any range w/ any caliber. ( she at 150-200 yds can keep an sks at 1-2 group.w/ 2-3 round bursts(ind pulls)) then when she is done gets up gets in the truck and sits there ever so smuggly as we watch the afore-mentioned bad asses pick up there jaws put there gear away and tuck tail. probably having to explain to there girlfriend or buddies what is/was wrong w/ there guns/themselves , or how they were just off today. or how my wife was just lucky.......we always get a little kick out of doing this. especially when old timers are around. just so we can give them some hope that the future is not lost on the youth,. we are out there so keep on shootin strait and for those of you who can't or won't stay home!
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Old April 16, 2006, 12:07 PM   #54
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From my point of view it is all about the context of the training. Some people get all wrap around the axel about their group. To me a group means that you are either just into target practice (bullseyes) or you are just going to slow. These people are obviously not interested in real world self defense training or have no idea what it is.

My context is self defense. I work on the balance of speed and accuracy. I look to draw and fire as fast as I can go, as long as I keep it within a 9" Thoracic Cavity hit. I also use a lot of threat focused skills (sans sights) including shooting fromt the compressed ready, 1/2 hip, 3/4 hip, zippering. For those that watch my "group" I am sure that they wonder why I suck so bad. I would be more than happy to go FOF with them to find out who's practice is more efficient, effective, and real world.

For those that feel the need to judge others to make themselves feel superior, they need to understand the context of the training. If you do not understand real world self defense skills then you are judging from a position of "you do not know what you do not know."

Which would be a major character flaw.

If someone has a 18" group, while zippering , at three yards, with the first shot breaking at .75, with the remaining shots four shots with a .18 split, while vertically stringing upwards. Would that person suck in your eyes?

Context man, context! You need to understand it to be able to judge it.
"Situations dictate strategy, strategy dictates tactics, tactics dictate techniques.....techniques should not dictate anything."
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Old April 16, 2006, 04:53 PM   #55
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Why be so critical about how other people burn there money? They are still shooting right. That means they support the second Amendment Rights. They support the firearms industry and shooting sports in general. Now if they are unsafe that is another story. I will always say something if I see unsafe acts. The people who are being unsafe are just new or nervous for the most part and will accept some advice on safety when done in a friendly way.
I have to confess that I sometimes load a Magazine and blast away as fast as I can at 15yds. I hit the target but it is not that 1/2 inch group.

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Old April 17, 2006, 01:35 PM   #56
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Okay, I didn't observe this first hand, but my friend just went to the range this weekend and he brought one of his buddies. His buddy had no experience shooting and my friend had very little. I told him if they wanted they could swing by and I could give them a couple of pointers before they showed up at the range and did something stupid. Well they never swung by, but did go to the range.

After inquiring how it went, he tells me his buddy loaded the bullets in mag. backwards. Uhh, what? How does that happen? Wouldn't common sense tell you when your putting the magazine into the gun, the bullets should be facing forward and not backwards. Well needless to say, he didn't realize it and attempted to shoot it and welp, nothing happend. So he brought the gun to the range officer who quickly told him the bullets were in backwards. Wow, I bet he felt silly.

My friend also managed to put one of his bullets in the magazine backwards. While he was off figuring out why the one gun didn't fire, he let his friend shoot the mag he just loaded in the other gun they had. His friend started shooting and around the 4th round it didn't fire.

I can safely so that, so far, I have not put a bullet in the mag. backwards. I hope I can continue to say that for a very long time.
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Old April 17, 2006, 01:45 PM   #57
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I agree with news and epr105 and others. As long as you are keeping the gun pointed in a safe direction I couldn't care less what your target looks like or if you stand on your head while you are shooting.
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Old April 17, 2006, 07:39 PM   #58
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Hey, that isn't really fair. I take offense to the people on the first page of this thread who lump everyone teaching their girlfriend how to shoot as bad shots.

I drill the center out of the target all day with my 586, and I take my girlfriend to the range sometimes. She's good, but I find it helps to move the target up pretty close. My thinking? Everyone can be a good shot at their own range. I don't expect her to grab my 357 magnum and be able to drill the center all day at 25 yards. I'm slowly introducing her to the sport. She had never shot outside of her Guard training, I'd grown up with a rifle in my hand.

Out to about 4-5 yards, she can manage a two inch group with the Bersa Thunder she likes so well. I feel pretty good about that. Quick learner. Most of all, it keeps it fun when you see that you're hitting the target.

Just remember not every guy with a girl on the range is there show boating or trying to flex their proverbial muscle. We're there because 1. I'd like her to share my appreciation of the sport (She already does, having bought me a gun for the last two birthdays!) and 2. Because being a good shot, even if just in common self defense ranges, is a skill that could very well save her life. It is a good time together AND MONEY BETTER SPENT THEN AT A MOVIE!
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” -Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg Trials
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Old April 17, 2006, 07:41 PM   #59
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Oh, and she never blows through a mag! Not even in the Beretta. We DO, however, practice double taps.
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” -Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg Trials
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Old April 17, 2006, 10:04 PM   #60
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I think it is wonderful that people that are so different and from so many walks of life can enjoy the shooting sports. As long as they are safe I applaud them for learning what guns are really about. The Rambo wannabes that just blast ammo with no accuracy involved learn very quickly that they are wasting money and quit shooting.

A buddy of mine watches a lot of movies and used to listen to some rap. He would always recite lyrics talking about using a "9" and shooting gangster sideways. I took him out shooting and explained about the intricacies of the 9mm semi-automatic pistol (we are both engineering students) and showed him what real accuracy was about; not turning the gun sideways, taking your time, and aiming. I am not an Elmer Keith, Jerry Miculek, or Skeeter Skelton by any means but I am a moderately good pistol shot. I explained the instictive and speed shooting comes with experience and no Hollywood gangster will ever take the time to practice and train enough to be terribly effective.

I have taken my fiance (another engineering student notice a theme?)shooting a few different times with various .22s and she has been very receptive so far. She understands and supports my decision to have a hobby and is willing to learn a little bit about it because I like it. While there I do not allow it to be a "date" especially on the firing line; it remains strictly professional and serious. She is becoming a fairly good shot now and knows the fundamental terminology of the various weapons we use.
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Old April 23, 2006, 09:59 PM   #61
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The only bad shooting I truly worry about is mine. My range is on my property, so I'm lucky enough to get in 300 - 800 rounds a week. It doesn't seem that long ago that I can remember shooting like a true laugher. Occasional range visits are not generally conducive to quality shooting. There isn't always time to work on the skills and mind set drills one needs to work on to gain a comfort level and proficiency. I enjoy having shooters out to help each other with skills and accuracy. As with most things that are woth doing well it's practice practice practice. I don't have the luxury of being that good as to criticize.
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Old April 23, 2006, 10:59 PM   #62
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I know there is a lot of show offs at the range that cant shoot for ----. I go shooting almost every sunday, and from what i see not to brag but i almost always out shot people there.I have spent over twenty yrs shooting for marksmanship.a young guy today asked what i was shooting when he seen my grouping which was my glock g19 9mm, He then replied that my glock was very accurate.He then stated his 45 was shooting low and left so we swaped guns i let him shoot mine and i shot his 45 taurus. The outcome his 45 taurus did shot low but once i adjusted i still was able to group ok. Then i looked at his target even though he did shot my glock better He still was all over the place on the paper.The guy then say thats it i am going to trade in my taurus for a glock then i replied no offense ,but train more before trading the gun in unless he rather train on a nine rather then a 45. He said you think.I felt like saying Da look at your target but i was nice and said practice makes better shooters.
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Old April 23, 2006, 11:36 PM   #63
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I dont think anyone on this thread was critizing anyone for being a bad shot. The only thing I felt anyone looked down upon was lack of effort. .

There is a big difference between someone who is an average shot, or doing practical speed drills and someone who leans back, holds their gun as far away from their body as possible, looks AWAY from the target and shoots off an entire magizine as fast as possible, over and over and over again. I notice these people and I notice the guy who shoots 15 bullets in 10 seconds and puts everyone of them in one ragged little hole.

If you have ever played a game of billiards with someone who wasnt even trying to sink shots, just randomly hitting the cue as hard as possible then you might know better how I feel about those who shoot without the effort to shoot well.
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Old April 24, 2006, 09:15 AM   #64
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I'm around people I don't know who have guns I'm not sure they know how to handle.
Yeah, I sort of think i'm paying attention to them.
And yes, I have left the range on occasion.

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Old April 24, 2006, 10:07 AM   #65
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Who cares as long as their being safe? Sometimes its win win. My first time out with my Bushy at the 50 yrd line I wasn't doing so good and in between I'd watch the guys next to me and they had a 50DE and weren't hitting squat and were jammomatic'ing it by limp wristing. The obvious owner of it saw me watching them so I offered the advice that they were limp wristing it, which he denied so I offered to show him. I ran 2 mags through it without it jamming once and a respectable grouping. He thanked me and offered to show me how to shoot my AR. I was sure my ammo was my culprit and he proceeded to just drill the center out of the target with it. (Young guy just out of Basic). He had an unfamilier gun, I had an unfamilier win.

The ones that make me nervous is the crowd of gangbanger types who show up with a plethora of guns and show no semblence of doing anything right, and are there (showing off) teaching their GF's how to shoot.
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Old April 24, 2006, 05:57 PM   #66
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have you all not taught your wives/girlfriends how to shoot, or is it that you prefer the single life?
My wife was winning shooting competitions when I was still a tiny little baby, so never had to worry about that.
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Old April 24, 2006, 06:30 PM   #67
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My wife hated guns passionately when we first met. Now she accompanies me to the range fairly often and she is a decent shooter. Good QT for us. I was just saying, don't judge just because a guy is teaching his GF how to shoot. If he is showboating and knowitalling (?) that is a different story.
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