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Old January 27, 2006, 07:53 PM   #1
Missoura Don
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santa Barbara Remington

I just picked up a 1858 New Model Army for $30 bucks at a pawn shop. Thing is..Ive never heard of this manufacturer...bottom of bbl is stamped: Made By E.N. Santa Barbara Spain theres some kinda proof mark in between the Barbara and Spain...Left side of bbbl says Cal.44 top of bbl is marked New Model Army...right side of bbl has another proof mark..cant make it out...but looks like a R inside a old cannon ball with the fuse on top. bottom right hand side of frame (above trigger guaed) has two more proof maks one like I just descreibed, and another one that looks pretty similar. Its pretty banged up, with some scratches, muzzle deffinattly needs recrowned, bbl stud for rammer is missin, and nipples need to be replaced. Stripped it all down and did a thourough cleanin on it...action is still tight though.... Anyone know about these models? I think I may get a new cyl, and possibly recrown the muzzle....see if its a shooter...any help would be appreciated!!!
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Old January 28, 2006, 12:04 PM   #2
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Ok..wait a minute,.....now im wonderin iffn its an 1863????..Im confused on these Remingtons.......
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Old January 30, 2006, 09:28 AM   #3
Low Key
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The way that I understand it, 1858 was the year that Remington arms aquired the patent for these revolvers from Beals. I think that production was actually begun in 1863, so what is termed the 1858 model new army was actually the 1863 model. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the company that made that one. I'm still relatively new to this game and don't know all the history. I'll bet mec knows what it is though.
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Old January 30, 2006, 11:01 AM   #4
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First there was the Remington Beals, then the Old Model Army(patent date is 1858) produced in 1861 these models are distinguished from the NMA of 1863 (same patent date as these are upgrades)by the fact that they do not show threads at the breech(partial threads only and breech is even with frame) like the NMA does(3 or more) exposing threads and breech beyond the frame. Old Army is flat or straight and the NMA has a scoop out of the frame at the breech to expose the threads.
Go here to get more Info:
www.scorrs.org and read the histories of the Remingtons.
So our beloved '58's are in reality Model 1863 New Model Armies. They became known as "58's due to the model first used in Italy to make the first reproductions (from the patent date on the originals they used) and the name has stuck ever since.
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Old January 30, 2006, 02:34 PM   #5
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O.D. is right on with the Remington info here. He should know, "OLD" Dragoon was there!! Just kidding OD.
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Old January 31, 2006, 08:03 AM   #6
Missoura Don
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Hey appreciate the info guys...I finally figgerd that out. Was reading..THE ILLUSTRATED BOOK OF GUNS by David Miller, and thought I sasw a '58...but he said it was a model "63..so I just got a little confused..Now if I can just find some info on Santa Barbara arms...ill be doin good !!!
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Old February 8, 2006, 08:34 AM   #7
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the 1858 is just a patent date ..
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Old February 15, 2006, 11:57 AM   #8
Octogonal
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You have a treasure

Sorry about my english , I'm from Spain. Santa Bárbara is the Spanish national weapons factory. It is better than Uberti or Pietta. Built with better steel. Very appreciated by the Spanish competitors, all of them compete with SB. It has not been manufactured for about 20 years and they are extremely expensive. Their price is approximately 500-600 Euros (600-710$), and a new Pietta or Uberti only 300 (355$). I have 2 SB and 1 Pietta. The clearest are the SB, and they have more than two decades.
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/7...eres0027vn.jpg
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/4...eres0040id.jpg
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/4...eres0095vg.jpg
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Old February 15, 2006, 02:31 PM   #9
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Octogonal,
WOW that is some great news for Missoura Don! Looks like he lucked out with a good one. Now I wonder where he can get parts if he needs them.
Thanks for letting us know just what his pistol is.
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Old February 15, 2006, 04:34 PM   #10
Missoura Don
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Octagonal, I sure appreciate that info, because i havnt been able to find any info on that old shooter. I have found a few things concerning santa Barbra machine guns, but nothing on a blackpowder. I guess I lucked out on this for only 30 bucks, but it doesnt look anywear near as good as shape as those you have, but the emblyn on that box is the same thats on this shooter. As far as apperance goes, it has a few scratches on the barrel, a few little rust spots on the frame (very light rust), Im sure Im gonna need a new cylinder, because i cant get the nipples off to save my soul, and a couple of the chambers have some slight pitting in them. I guess ill check to see if that cylinder can be interchanged with another '58 cylinder of some brand. The action is strong and tight, all internal pieces,(hand, bolt, springs, etc) are all good, except for the spring on the hand is loose in its slot. Ya think maybe its worth fixin up??? Thanks again Octagonal, that info was appreciated....They are good lookin shooters when their all clean and shiny huh
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Old February 15, 2006, 10:26 PM   #11
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Don,

As the man says they are better than the Pietta or Uberti, I would say, yes, you should try to clean them up.

Slightly pitted chambers might just need a little polishing, not to a high degree, nice to have a little grab on the ball when you seat them.

Octogon says they are better steel than the others, why try a Pietta or Uberti cylinder, unless you want a second or third cyl?

Try shooting it, and if you don't like it, I'll give you 50 for it, and I'll pay the shipping.

Most of the consumable parts, like springs, will probably fit from the other makes, with a little filing or grinding.

I'd sure'n hell like to get some deals like you're finding. Would likely have more'n 5 BPs by now

Cheers,

George

I forgot to say, Welcome to the Forum, Octogonal. Hope you reply more often, and don't worry, your command of English is excellent.
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Old February 16, 2006, 05:18 AM   #12
Octogonal
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Hi friends
More info from Spain. With the description, it is a authentic SB. Santa Bárbara is very old. The company manufactures weapons for 466 years because it was founded in 1540 in Seville, and the factory of Oviedo where the revolvers were manufactured is of 1794. It supplies to the Spanish army for centuries. Most of Italian makers as Pietta or Uberti manufacture under a recreational and cheap standard. But SB manufactures its products with military quality of high precision with a good steel. The SB weighs 120 Grams less than Pietta but its resistance is bigger. That facilitates the shot and do it more comfortable. There are hardly pieces in the market, because they have no longer been manufactured for about 20 years. I only know an armory (in Spain) that still has some pieces, but they are expensive, email: [email protected]. The proprietor is very kind but I don't know if he will know English, if you write him in Spanish will be better. If you don't know I can help you. The proprietors of revolvers SB has a wide stock for the future The cylinder is not interchangeable with Pietta. With Uberti I don't know. I recommend that you put in the SB the hammer's spring of Pietta. The action is softened with its spring. Their precision is magnifies. Even with mediocre hands as mine, I have obtained fantastic punctuations with them. The point is low and is necessary to elevate. But the revolver is magnify (under good maintenance conditions) and of great resistance to the waste. In the Spanish or international championships 99% of the Spanish competitors shoots with SB. You have bought very very cheap. Missoura Don, you are a lucky man. I hope you know to appreciate the revolver. Gmatov, thank you for your words.
A small gift so that you request pieces:
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/7601/img0011lb.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4315/img0025xt.jpg

Hasta pronto amigos
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Old February 16, 2006, 07:49 AM   #13
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Octogonal, as Mr. G said....welcome to the forum!! Well this is quite a shocker for me. Since I couldnt find any info on it, it started to raise my curiosity even more. I think the reason the pawn shop sold it to me so cheap ( they know me prety good in there) is that the loading lever catch was missing, and the lever was just kinda hanging, and the barrel and frame has some scratches and buggerd up spots, meaning to me that someone abused this little pice of history, and they prolly thought it was just a piece of junk. I realize now, thanks to you Octogonal, that I have a shooter worth investing some time and money into. Those pics you sent in your last post are excellent!! They are very same proofmarks that are on this piece. Ive been putting money back to buy a LeMat, but I think Ill use this money to have this SB profesionally polished and blued, and find a new cylinder somewhere for it I hate to put a Pietta spring in the hand if its gonna make the action any weaker, because this thing is tight, and has a very "noticeble Clickature" when cocked. I sure appreciate your info youve givin me Octogonal, it has helped me immensially in considering investing money into it. Once again, thanks !!
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Old February 16, 2006, 08:26 AM   #14
Old Dragoon
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Missouri Don,
Try this before you pitch the cylinder. Buy some Kroil Penetrating oil and soak the cylinder in mmersed in the Kroil. Let it soak for a few days to a week. Once a day Tap on the nipples with a hammer just enough to set up a vibration(this lets the Kroil seep into the threads.) Make sure that you have the correct nipple wrench. then try to get them out, If you are going to spend the bucks to polish and reblue, the gunsmith can probably get the nipples out. You can use heat(propane torch). The gunsmith can drill out the nipples and then rethread the cylinder too and install new nipples.
Good luck(the Remmy will be a lot more fun than the Lemat anyway)...LOLEven with the ensueing work, sounds like you got a "Deal!"
Measure your Cylinder Length My Uberti Carbine's cylinder length is 2.001, Dia is 1.603 this should tell you if an Uberti cylinder will fit. Also you need to check out the pawl on yours and an Uberti to see if they are the same configuration. Do you have a friend that has an Uberit '58, if so ask to check out to see if his cylinder will drop in.
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Old February 16, 2006, 10:20 AM   #15
Octogonal
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I believe to remember that he ([email protected]) has cylinders for SB and maybe also level catch. The spring that I recommend to change is the Nº 21 (main spring), the Nº 33 Pietta's spring doesn't fit. Maybe it was a confusion for the language. Look at a thing so that you think of recovering that jewel. The only current remington similar in material quality are Pedersoli (Italy) and Hege (Germany) and their prices oscillate between 750 and 1000 Euros in Europe (20% more in $). They maybe are more refined but is necessary to think that your SB was manufactured more than 20 years ago. If you restore your SB you will have a gun with a quality comparable to Hege and Pedersoli. Please, if you are able to insert some piece of Uberti or another brand I wanted to know it.

Le veo pronto (See you soon)
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Old February 16, 2006, 01:53 PM   #16
Missoura Don
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Hey Dragoon...i tried soaking that cylinder in WD 40 for a couple of days, and did tap the nips every so often to set up vibration...but still to no avail, so I reckon Ill just have the smith look it over when I take it to be reblued, and see if he can salvage it. Id like to keep to keep this thing all original (all SB original parts), although I did find a loading lever catch that fits perfectly into the slot. im sure its not SB made...I may have to enlist the help of Octogonal's contact there in spain to try and locate even maybe a spare cylinder.Theres no way to tell if the inner working parts are original, so Im just gonna take for granted they are. Im gonna try to take a few pics of it this weekend and see if I can figure out how to post em, and in a few months when its completed, show them too!! Thanks fer yer input dragoon.
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Old February 16, 2006, 02:09 PM   #17
Missoura Don
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Octogonal....As i told dragoon...Id like to keep this shooter all original, and possibly enlist your help in communicating with that person whos email you posted, Cause I dont know how to speak Spain..(barely can speak english......) Another question ...In those '58s you posted pics of...are all those Santa Barbras?? The one in the middle has 3 proofmarks on the frame, right where the barrel screws into it, and the very first mark sure looks like one of the marks i have on mine....but not at that location...Im sure they havnt been rubbed off or anything, the blueing is still good there....anyways...those are beautifull....I plan on havin mine lookin like that in a few months!!!..thanks for yer help Octagonal!!!
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Old February 16, 2006, 03:19 PM   #18
Old Dragoon
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MD,
Go to this site and join it.
http://www.photobucket.com/

You upload pictures to their site and then copy the url listing under the picture, I do it on a split screen (two browser windows open and sized to see both).. Click on the icon above with the mtns and red square in it below the undo arrow. put your cursor in the highlighted http and left click paste. then click ok. that'll get you picture posted on this site in your message.

We all want to see your Santa Barbra '58 before and after.
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Old February 17, 2006, 05:04 AM   #19
Octogonal
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Hola a todos

Missoura, I like your decision of restoring the Santa in original form. If you make some pictures of the internal parts, I will tell you if they are or not original. I have disassembled them many times. At least I will tell you if the parts are not original, that's more easy. I have three Remington. Two Santas and a Pietta. The Pietta has the dark wood. The others two of wood clear are Santas. But I sold yesterday the Pietta. On Monday I will give it to their buyer. I have in mind another weapon. Don't worry, I will help you with the translations of Emails if you need request parts to Spain.
As Old Dragoon says, we want to see your Santa Barbara before and after. It deserves a second opportunity.
Adios
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