what is the best round

wo55d · December 2, 2005, 07:27 PM

i own a remington 300 ultra mag what is the best load for big game hunting out around 500 yards. right now im shooting 150gr. swift scirocco bonded rounds. at 100 yards they group great. havent had a chance to shoot any further yet. need some thing differnt or what i will probley go up to 180gr. but not for shure. great gun i love it.

Art Eatman · December 2, 2005, 08:47 PM

How much experience have you had in shooting in the field, nowhere near a benchrest? How much field shooting have you done at ranges beyond 200 yards?

Part of the reason I ask is that in my decades of shooting deer in various areas of Texas, I've killed one deer at 350 and one deer at 450. The other 50 or so were typically inside of 200 yards.

I can only comment that shooting out toward 300 yards, much less longer distances, generally takes a lot of experience in order to be successful.

Art

mete · December 2, 2005, 09:11 PM

You should use a bullet with good sectional density and ballistic coefficient at that range ,something like a 180 gr. But Art is right ,do lots of practice at 500 yds before you even think of hunting at that range.

Greybeard · December 2, 2005, 11:29 PM

Depending upon "normal" sight-in, them bullets gonna drop somewhere between 2 and 4 feet out at 500 yards. And most folks can't accurately estimate the difference between 300 and 500 yards, which is further complicated by this thing called "shooter dispersion" ...

Pointer · December 3, 2005, 12:55 AM

Get 165-168 grain bullets

150's are usually too light at long ranges

Ranges beyond 200 makes it very difficult to "hold" on the point you want to impact.

It is irresponsible to take shots beyond 200 unless you have a benchrest or a prone position with excellent weather/lighting/wind and visibility...

Twycross · December 3, 2005, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Get 165-168 grain bullets

150's are usually too light at long ranges

Ranges beyond 200 makes it very difficult to "hold" on the point you want to impact.

+1

Quote:

It is irresponsible to take shots beyond 200 unless you have a benchrest or a prone position with excellent weather/lighting/wind and visibility...

Perhaps for you. Not necessarily for everyone else too.

stevelyn · December 3, 2005, 09:35 AM

What possible reason could you have for shooting at a game animal beyond 300yrds?

Twycross · December 3, 2005, 02:54 PM

Because you can't get any closer? Not everyone has to limit themselves to 200 yards. I killed my buck this year at 300. I have a friend who two weeks ago made a 350 yard headshot on his deer. We hunt a lot of canyons in my part of Idaho, and there are frequent times when 300 or 350 yards is just the closest you can get.

MrGee · December 3, 2005, 03:43 PM

Wo55 sounds like you may reload an it also sounds like you'll be hunting something larger the deer ... maybe Elk [big game] i would suggest a 180gr.scirocco for good penetration the 180 will also hold its speed an energy out that far, RX22 powder an a rem 9 1/2 primer mite work 3200fps at that speed if you site in at 200yrds zero, expect a 33 -34 inch drop at 500yrds
so if your using a 1/4 min scope at 500 4 click mite give about 5 inches you do the math ...hey good luck on the hunt.. lets us know how you do...
NC.Mr.G

T. O'Heir · December 3, 2005, 11:17 PM

"...big game hunting out around 500 yards..." Too far. At 500 yards, the .300 UM with a 180 grain bullet only has 2160 ft-lbs of energy left and it drops 27.3" with a 250 yard zero. The remaining velocity is 2325fps at 500. S'ok at 300 though. http://www.remington.com/products/am...terfire&cal=38
Unless you've spent a great deal of time shooting at 500 yards and can hit a 9" pie plate every time, you shouldn't be taking hunting shots at that distance.

MrGee · December 4, 2005, 10:22 AM

no flames intended but the figures you have T o' would show that a 30-30 win. almost has a muzzle. an the 30-30 still hold the record for most kills in the US for hunting.. you an i don't know what skills WO55 ... i
just figure if a person asks a question he should get an answer .. we [us] certainly don't all think the same, i'm sure your gran-dad didn't think anyone would walk on the moon either.... their are people out there that can hit prairie dogs further then that .. so if he wants to make a world record shot why should we stop him, now that he has an idea on what it takes, he may change his mind or better yet practice for it...... i sa good luck

ClarkEMyers · December 5, 2005, 05:59 AM

For deer I'd stick with the 150 grain at all ranges and figure the extra muzzle velocity a plus.

For bigger game I'd use a bigger bullet. For all around I'm a big fan of the 200 grain in the big .30's for all purposes just as I think the 160 grain is the bullet in the big case 7mm cartridges. Still for 500 yard deer I'd go 150 grain and start it as fast as I could.

I mostly wouldn't shoot at 500 yards even with a laser rangefinder and a self adjusting scope though there is the case of shooting from a bench at notch where the setup has been tested on paper at the actual site in advance of shooting game.

I wouldn't even try for a headshot at extended range. I'd probably be explaining to Clint Rand why I didn't recover a wounded animal and it starved to death with its jaw hanging loose. Missed it by that much.

Knowing the gun and the game is just the beginning.

siotwo · December 5, 2005, 08:56 AM

Looks like the Scirocco 180gr has plenty of energy at 500yds.

Art Eatman · December 5, 2005, 10:03 AM

Siotwo, it's not an energy deal. Heck, an '06 will do the job. What's important is the shooter's abilities in judging range and wind, among other factors in rifleman skills.

It sure doesn't hurt to shoot a good bit at 400 and 500 from hasty-rest positions. That's probably a lot more important than remaining energy of the bullet. I'll bet a hit in the neck from a thutty-thutty will do better than a gut-shot from a Hotsy-totsy Magnum.

Art

marmark · December 5, 2005, 02:50 PM

when the 30-30 was first introduced wasn't it claimed to be a 600 yard gun? Just make sure you stay within your abilities. One shot kill is one shot kill no matter what range.

Twycross · December 5, 2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

when the 30-30 was first introduced wasn't it claimed to be a 600 yard gun? Just make sure you stay within your abilities.

I don't know if it was claimed to be a 600 yard gun, but whatever the original claims, it is effectively limited to about 200 max.

dave0520 · December 5, 2005, 04:20 PM

I know for a fact that people reach out to about 275 yards with a scoped .30-30 all the time for deer. The new Hornady Leverevolution ammo is claimed to stretch that out another 100 yards.

wo55d · December 5, 2005, 04:57 PM

thanks alot. i am a experienced bow hunter and have no problem getting game into range. i have a buddie that is a scout snipper in the 101st airborne.i shot w/ him when he is in town. i have no experience w/ the " ultra mag" i was just woundering what bullets to shot for a long shot on big game Mrgee is right elk. i plan on doing some kodiak hunting also but i want them closer w/ a really slow heavy load. i have killed more game w/ my 30/06 than any. boars 180gr. core lockt out to 100 yards. deer out to 300 yards w/125gr. core lockt and dropped them were they stand. my favorite is going doe hunting w/ my buddies ar-15. a 45 grain jhp will even stop a deer where it stands around 200yds. i think i will stick w/ the swift scirocco bonded bullet in 180gr. this ultra mag is a sweet gun i like it. got four rounds with the 150's in a quarter sized hole at 100 yards. going to the 330 meter range this weeked. anybody know good hand loads for long distance for the 300RUM that is why i bought the gun to shot long distance shots. but i will say nothing is better than a well used 30-06.

siotwo · December 5, 2005, 10:48 PM

Wow ART, I agree with you already

My comment was only about the energy at 500yds distance. I whole heartedly agree that making a proper shot at that distance is something else entirely.

I have a 300yd range nearby and used it alot to prepare for antelope in WY. BIG difference in just going from 100 out to 300. At least at 300 you can hold on the animal (or animal paper target) instead of above it. 500 yds and you better have plenty of practice, and a stationary animal.

Jack O'Conner · December 19, 2005, 08:14 AM

500 yard shots at big game? Seems like it would be feasible to halve that distance by considering factors of terrain and wind direction.
Jack

MeekAndMild · December 19, 2005, 08:46 PM

I hve difficulty believing that people can successfully hung at 500 yards. One of the most experianced hunters I know had to shoot 3 times to connect with a 400 yard antelope, shooting over once and under once before hitting it. You are talking about what, 30+ inches of bullet drop?

How about energy bleed-off? Here is a Chuck Hawks article which lists the 300 Ultra Mag as being effective for 600 pound critters over 400 yards, but is only lists 1000 pound critters at 250 yards. http://www.chuckhawks.com/game_range_caliber.htm

FirstFreedom · December 19, 2005, 08:57 PM

If 500 is your gig, then I'd definitely handload 190s or 200s. 180s minimum. I'd still try like hell to get within 250-300 at most, however, even from a rested position. From unrested, within 100-125.

Art Eatman · December 19, 2005, 10:21 PM

Okay, a few points to think about. I have a 100-yard backstop at my house, and just a few yards away from the house is a shooting table for a 500-yard range.

I'be been messing with Ol' Pet for over thirty years, shooting proably around or over 4,000 rounds through. Lots of plinkers; not bunches of stuff hotter than USGI.

So. I sight in for two inches high at 100 yards, which is nominally dead on at 100 yards with the Sierra 150-grain SPBT. The book sez dead on at 200, 6" low at 300, 21" to 22" low at 400 and around 45" or so low at 500.

I go out the first time for 500. I guesstimate four feet above the center of the 22"-diameter plate, and hold a foot off to the side for the wind. My first hit was 6" low at 5:30. My second hit was 1" low at 6PM. "Time to quit," I sez.

So I load up some 165-grain and 180-grain Sierra BTs. I adjust the scope for 500. With the remaining 165s, I get two four-shot four-inch groups. With the 180s, I call two flyers out of a ten-shot string and get a six-inch group.

The point of this is, first, it's off a table. Second, it's a known distance. IOW, I darned sure ought to be able to hit a 22" target under those conditions.

Now move to the field, without a laser range finder. You might be a flatlander in canyon country where distances are VERY deceiving. And you're limited to a hasty rest. Whole different ball game. I'm not gonna guesstimate the difference between 400 and 500 yards in canyon country. I did that once, and missed eight times before the cooperative buck moved some 150 yards toward me. (His mistake, which didn't keep me from a serious case of restrospective, "Art, you were stoopid!".

)

If you haven't spent a bunch of time in the field, looking at lots of game at all manner of distances over a bunch of years, control yourself about how far off you can reliably hit the animal for a clean, ethical kill.

I dunno. Set paper plates out every 50 yards to 500. Guesstimate holdover and windage, and practice a bunch.

THEN talk about 500.

Art

Wild Bill Bucks · December 29, 2005, 03:37 PM

I agree with Art.
SHOOTERS can do ANY shot when you do enough practice at the same distance every shot, but in a hunting situation you will never shoot the same shot at the same distance twice.
Shooters practice from a bench at a target that doesn't move and has a bullseye painted on it.
Hunters very seldom get those conditions at game.
I've hunted for 50 years and have never taken a shot over 300 yards at a live animal.
I'm sure there are places where those shots are a neccessary thing, but I would suggest lots of practice OFF the bench at LOTS of various ranges without the use of a range finder.
At ranges that are going to require that you walk for 10 or 15 minutes to find the spot your game was standing, you will want a lot of confidence that you are going to find blood when you get there.

December 2, 2005, 07:27 PM	#1
wo55d Junior Member Join Date: December 2, 2005 Posts: 9	what is the best round i own a remington 300 ultra mag what is the best load for big game hunting out around 500 yards. right now im shooting 150gr. swift scirocco bonded rounds. at 100 yards they group great. havent had a chance to shoot any further yet. need some thing differnt or what i will probley go up to 180gr. but not for shure. great gun i love it.

December 2, 2005, 11:29 PM	#4
Greybeard Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2002 Location: Denton County Texas Posts: 686	Depending upon "normal" sight-in, them bullets gonna drop somewhere between 2 and 4 feet out at 500 yards. And most folks can't accurately estimate the difference between 300 and 500 yards, which is further complicated by this thing called "shooter dispersion" ... __________________ www.dentoncountysports.com A Private Palace for Pistol Proficiency

December 3, 2005, 09:35 AM	#7
stevelyn Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Fairbanksan in exile to Aleutian Hell Posts: 2,655	What possible reason could you have for shooting at a game animal beyond 300yrds? __________________ Stop Allowing Our Schools To Be Soft Targets! http://fastersaveslives.org/ East Moose. Wear Wolf.

December 3, 2005, 02:54 PM	#8
Twycross Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 1,187	Because you can't get any closer? Not everyone has to limit themselves to 200 yards. I killed my buck this year at 300. I have a friend who two weeks ago made a 350 yard headshot on his deer. We hunt a lot of canyons in my part of Idaho, and there are frequent times when 300 or 350 yards is just the closest you can get. __________________ The test of character is not 'hanging in' when you expect light at the end of the tunnel, but performance of duty, and persistence of example when you know no light is coming. - Vice Admiral James Stockdale, USN (ret.)

December 5, 2005, 05:59 AM	#12
ClarkEMyers Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2004 Location: PacWest Posts: 455	For deer I'd stick with the 150 grain For deer I'd stick with the 150 grain at all ranges and figure the extra muzzle velocity a plus. For bigger game I'd use a bigger bullet. For all around I'm a big fan of the 200 grain in the big .30's for all purposes just as I think the 160 grain is the bullet in the big case 7mm cartridges. Still for 500 yard deer I'd go 150 grain and start it as fast as I could. I mostly wouldn't shoot at 500 yards even with a laser rangefinder and a self adjusting scope though there is the case of shooting from a bench at notch where the setup has been tested on paper at the actual site in advance of shooting game. I wouldn't even try for a headshot at extended range. I'd probably be explaining to Clint Rand why I didn't recover a wounded animal and it starved to death with its jaw hanging loose. Missed it by that much. Knowing the gun and the game is just the beginning.

December 2, 2005, 08:47 PM	#2
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	How much experience have you had in shooting in the field, nowhere near a benchrest? How much field shooting have you done at ranges beyond 200 yards? Part of the reason I ask is that in my decades of shooting deer in various areas of Texas, I've killed one deer at 350 and one deer at 450. The other 50 or so were typically inside of 200 yards. I can only comment that shooting out toward 300 yards, much less longer distances, generally takes a lot of experience in order to be successful. Art

December 2, 2005, 09:11 PM	#3
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	You should use a bullet with good sectional density and ballistic coefficient at that range ,something like a 180 gr. But Art is right ,do lots of practice at 500 yds before you even think of hunting at that range.

December 3, 2005, 12:55 AM	#5
Pointer Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 2,559	Get 165-168 grain bullets 150's are usually too light at long ranges Ranges beyond 200 makes it very difficult to "hold" on the point you want to impact. It is irresponsible to take shots beyond 200 unless you have a benchrest or a prone position with excellent weather/lighting/wind and visibility...

December 3, 2005, 03:43 PM	#9
MrGee Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2005 Location: NC Posts: 260	Wo55 sounds like you may reload an it also sounds like you'll be hunting something larger the deer ... maybe Elk [big game] i would suggest a 180gr.scirocco for good penetration the 180 will also hold its speed an energy out that far, RX22 powder an a rem 9 1/2 primer mite work 3200fps at that speed if you site in at 200yrds zero, expect a 33 -34 inch drop at 500yrds so if your using a 1/4 min scope at 500 4 click mite give about 5 inches you do the math ...hey good luck on the hunt.. lets us know how you do... NC.Mr.G

December 3, 2005, 11:17 PM	#10
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...big game hunting out around 500 yards..." Too far. At 500 yards, the .300 UM with a 180 grain bullet only has 2160 ft-lbs of energy left and it drops 27.3" with a 250 yard zero. The remaining velocity is 2325fps at 500. S'ok at 300 though. http://www.remington.com/products/am...terfire&cal=38 Unless you've spent a great deal of time shooting at 500 yards and can hit a 9" pie plate every time, you shouldn't be taking hunting shots at that distance.

December 4, 2005, 10:22 AM	#11
MrGee Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2005 Location: NC Posts: 260	no flames intended but the figures you have T o' would show that a 30-30 win. almost has a muzzle. an the 30-30 still hold the record for most kills in the US for hunting.. you an i don't know what skills WO55 ... i just figure if a person asks a question he should get an answer .. we [us] certainly don't all think the same, i'm sure your gran-dad didn't think anyone would walk on the moon either.... their are people out there that can hit prairie dogs further then that .. so if he wants to make a world record shot why should we stop him, now that he has an idea on what it takes, he may change his mind or better yet practice for it...... i sa good luck

December 5, 2005, 08:56 AM	#13
siotwo Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2005 Location: The Woodlands, TX Posts: 217	Looks like the Scirocco 180gr has plenty of energy at 500yds.

December 5, 2005, 10:03 AM	#14
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Siotwo, it's not an energy deal. Heck, an '06 will do the job. What's important is the shooter's abilities in judging range and wind, among other factors in rifleman skills. It sure doesn't hurt to shoot a good bit at 400 and 500 from hasty-rest positions. That's probably a lot more important than remaining energy of the bullet. I'll bet a hit in the neck from a thutty-thutty will do better than a gut-shot from a Hotsy-totsy Magnum. Art

December 5, 2005, 02:50 PM	#15
marmark Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 34	when the 30-30 was first introduced wasn't it claimed to be a 600 yard gun? Just make sure you stay within your abilities. One shot kill is one shot kill no matter what range. __________________ No one can force me to run into a burning building, I'm a volunteer!

December 5, 2005, 04:20 PM	#17
dave0520 Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Location: Philadelphia suburbs Posts: 394	I know for a fact that people reach out to about 275 yards with a scoped .30-30 all the time for deer. The new Hornady Leverevolution ammo is claimed to stretch that out another 100 yards.

December 5, 2005, 04:57 PM	#18
wo55d Junior Member Join Date: December 2, 2005 Posts: 9	thanks alot. i am a experienced bow hunter and have no problem getting game into range. i have a buddie that is a scout snipper in the 101st airborne.i shot w/ him when he is in town. i have no experience w/ the " ultra mag" i was just woundering what bullets to shot for a long shot on big game Mrgee is right elk. i plan on doing some kodiak hunting also but i want them closer w/ a really slow heavy load. i have killed more game w/ my 30/06 than any. boars 180gr. core lockt out to 100 yards. deer out to 300 yards w/125gr. core lockt and dropped them were they stand. my favorite is going doe hunting w/ my buddies ar-15. a 45 grain jhp will even stop a deer where it stands around 200yds. i think i will stick w/ the swift scirocco bonded bullet in 180gr. this ultra mag is a sweet gun i like it. got four rounds with the 150's in a quarter sized hole at 100 yards. going to the 330 meter range this weeked. anybody know good hand loads for long distance for the 300RUM that is why i bought the gun to shot long distance shots. but i will say nothing is better than a well used 30-06.

December 5, 2005, 10:48 PM	#19
siotwo Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2005 Location: The Woodlands, TX Posts: 217	Wow ART, I agree with you already My comment was only about the energy at 500yds distance. I whole heartedly agree that making a proper shot at that distance is something else entirely. I have a 300yd range nearby and used it alot to prepare for antelope in WY. BIG difference in just going from 100 out to 300. At least at 300 you can hold on the animal (or animal paper target) instead of above it. 500 yds and you better have plenty of practice, and a stationary animal.

December 19, 2005, 08:14 AM	#20
Jack O'Conner Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2005 Location: Manatee County, Florida Posts: 1,976	500 yard shots at big game? Seems like it would be feasible to halve that distance by considering factors of terrain and wind direction. Jack

December 19, 2005, 08:46 PM	#21
MeekAndMild Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2001 Posts: 4,988	I hve difficulty believing that people can successfully hung at 500 yards. One of the most experianced hunters I know had to shoot 3 times to connect with a 400 yard antelope, shooting over once and under once before hitting it. You are talking about what, 30+ inches of bullet drop? How about energy bleed-off? Here is a Chuck Hawks article which lists the 300 Ultra Mag as being effective for 600 pound critters over 400 yards, but is only lists 1000 pound critters at 250 yards. http://www.chuckhawks.com/game_range_caliber.htm __________________ In a few years when the dust finally clears and people start counting their change there is a pretty good chance that President Obama may become known as The Great Absquatulator. You heard it first here on TFL.

December 19, 2005, 08:57 PM	#22
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	If 500 is your gig, then I'd definitely handload 190s or 200s. 180s minimum. I'd still try like hell to get within 250-300 at most, however, even from a rested position. From unrested, within 100-125.

December 19, 2005, 10:21 PM	#23
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Okay, a few points to think about. I have a 100-yard backstop at my house, and just a few yards away from the house is a shooting table for a 500-yard range. I'be been messing with Ol' Pet for over thirty years, shooting proably around or over 4,000 rounds through. Lots of plinkers; not bunches of stuff hotter than USGI. So. I sight in for two inches high at 100 yards, which is nominally dead on at 100 yards with the Sierra 150-grain SPBT. The book sez dead on at 200, 6" low at 300, 21" to 22" low at 400 and around 45" or so low at 500. I go out the first time for 500. I guesstimate four feet above the center of the 22"-diameter plate, and hold a foot off to the side for the wind. My first hit was 6" low at 5:30. My second hit was 1" low at 6PM. "Time to quit," I sez. So I load up some 165-grain and 180-grain Sierra BTs. I adjust the scope for 500. With the remaining 165s, I get two four-shot four-inch groups. With the 180s, I call two flyers out of a ten-shot string and get a six-inch group. The point of this is, first, it's off a table. Second, it's a known distance. IOW, I darned sure ought to be able to hit a 22" target under those conditions. Now move to the field, without a laser range finder. You might be a flatlander in canyon country where distances are VERY deceiving. And you're limited to a hasty rest. Whole different ball game. I'm not gonna guesstimate the difference between 400 and 500 yards in canyon country. I did that once, and missed eight times before the cooperative buck moved some 150 yards toward me. (His mistake, which didn't keep me from a serious case of restrospective, "Art, you were stoopid!". ) If you haven't spent a bunch of time in the field, looking at lots of game at all manner of distances over a bunch of years, control yourself about how far off you can reliably hit the animal for a clean, ethical kill. I dunno. Set paper plates out every 50 yards to 500. Guesstimate holdover and windage, and practice a bunch. THEN talk about 500. Art

December 29, 2005, 03:37 PM	#24
Wild Bill Bucks Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2005 Location: Southeastern Oklahoma, Next door to Sasquatch Posts: 1,266	I agree with Art. SHOOTERS can do ANY shot when you do enough practice at the same distance every shot, but in a hunting situation you will never shoot the same shot at the same distance twice. Shooters practice from a bench at a target that doesn't move and has a bullseye painted on it. Hunters very seldom get those conditions at game. I've hunted for 50 years and have never taken a shot over 300 yards at a live animal. I'm sure there are places where those shots are a neccessary thing, but I would suggest lots of practice OFF the bench at LOTS of various ranges without the use of a range finder. At ranges that are going to require that you walk for 10 or 15 minutes to find the spot your game was standing, you will want a lot of confidence that you are going to find blood when you get there.