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Old November 19, 2005, 11:46 AM   #26
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"warning "shots are a bad idea all the way has been pointed out , you are either justified to shoot the person, or not shoot at all. You are responsible for what that bullet does..whether it knocks a hole in someones car, or someone. It also shows a BG in their way of thinking that you dont have your nerve up......and a warning shot at somebody you are chasing on foot is just going to make them run faster lol.
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Old November 19, 2005, 11:52 AM   #27
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If you have to draw on someone, the site of the gun in your hands is going to be enough of a detterent or it's not. If brandishing isn't going to prove to the BG that you're willing to put him away, than firing a warning shot probably won't prove your resolve either. That shot's just another bullet flying around that probably shouldn't be.
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Old November 19, 2005, 01:20 PM   #28
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I have heard a sheriff deputy say once that police cannot shoot someone running from them, unless it is at night, unless they first call out to them once or twice, and then fire a warning shot in the air and then shoot them.

Admittedly, there are departments out there with some pretty screwy policies, but only at night? Warning shot? Never heard those before; in fact, I know of NO department that authorizes warning shots, other than military.

The test of whether or not you can shoot someone running from you comes from SCOTUS's decision in Gardner vs Tennessee in 1985. The details are lengthly and mostly involve the use of deadly force for law enforcement, but the crux of the matter relating to this discussion is that deadly force IS authorized against a fleeing suspect IF the suspect's continued freedom presents a grave and imminent threat to the lives of others, and no other options for apprehension exist. I'm not sure how this would apply to non-LEO's.
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Old November 19, 2005, 03:46 PM   #29
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Police are not allowed to shoot warning shots
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Old November 19, 2005, 04:28 PM   #30
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A shot to the back will likely cost you a couple years pay in attorney fees. But under the right circumstances, can be beat in court. Happened a couple years ago in Austin. BG was fleeing, GG gave chase for several blocks & killed BG in an alley with shots to back & side. Kind of a long story & wrong thread. Maybe a shot in the back thread should be started.

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Old November 19, 2005, 08:02 PM   #31
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I don't know about other units, but Army Military Police are NOT EVER allowed to fire warning shots.
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Old November 19, 2005, 08:09 PM   #32
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Old November 19, 2005, 08:20 PM   #33
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I still have the last ROE card I got, all it says

If the situation permits, issue a challenge.

Nothing in these rules limit the right of individual soldiers to defend themselves or the right and responsibility of leaders to defend thier units.

Rule no 6. Do not cause unnecessary suffering.....hrmmm

I f you have broken out the firearm you have just used deadly force. In Texas, if you say stop or I am going to shoot you just used deadly force even if your pistol is holstered. So whats the dealie with a warning shot, its totally useless. Not to mention the fact that you are responsible for what that bullet does from the warning shot. Bullets should be put in the target not shot willy nilly into the air. If the guy is running with his back to me I have caused him to cease and desist. If he is of no immediate danger then I have accomplished what I needed to do. My knees are bad so I am not chasing him..but using the cell phone to call 911 with a description.

let the Motorolas chase him down....
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Old November 20, 2005, 12:49 PM   #34
too many choices!?
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How Do You Fire A Warning Shot?

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Old November 20, 2005, 01:53 PM   #35
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USA vs Europe

I know that in the USA warning shots are not very popular to say the least. We had a thread here some months ago which got pretty hot...

aaanyway: We in Austria/Europe do shoot warning shots with quite some success. Austrian police ammo (Fiocchi/Hirtenberger FL, 9x19mm, Glock 17) doesn't ricochet at all if fired straight into the floor (Street, concrete etc) at angles below 15°.

Don't fire warning shots into the air, the bullets come down almost as fast as they went up and can easily kill somebody miles away. Just DONT.

Fire warning shots straight down as straight as you can and WATCH YOUR FEET! You could also choose a secure backstop such as a concrete wall more than 10yds away or sand etc. Warning shots are much better than having to shoot somebody. So if there's time for it and a secure backstop it's a very smart alternative to killing. The sobering effect of a warning shot can be immense. However, only fire a warning shot if you have enough time to fire COM in case the BG doesn't react to your warning shot.

This is not about being allowed to shoot at somebody or not. This is about achieving control of a dangerous situation without having to kill a human, dog or whatever. If you have an alternative - use it for your own sake. Even if you were right and defending innocent life, you'd still have to cope with having killed somebody. And that's not an easy thing anyway...
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Old November 20, 2005, 10:43 PM   #36
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Years ago, when I still lived in New Jersey, I got in a discussion with a cop about a home invader and would I be justified in shooting them. The cop said at the time that THREE warning shots were required or else the disctrict attourney would prosecute the home owner/shooter. The cop's suggestion was shoot the invader first, then put three shots in your ceiling to protect yourself from prosecution.

Now, here in Florida....if someone enters my house, all my warning shots are headed for C.O.M.
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Old November 21, 2005, 10:51 AM   #37
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Interesting about Europe. I was ready a handgun book and it discussed a revolver used by the Dutch police. It was loaded with two blanks first. I guess those are for warning shots that won't zap an innocent. I don't know if I would recommend this practice but it is a solution for the noise maker crowd.
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Old November 21, 2005, 06:02 PM   #38
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kymasabe ,

I'd get a second opinion on that multiple warning shots & home invaders. LEOs are just people, and often wrong about what they think is the law. I've had multiple disagreements with LEOs where I work, concerning rules & procedures, and I every case, I was correct & they were incorrect. And that's understandable, they have to deal with a huge volume of ever changing info, and nobody can keep up with it all.
Warning shots just seem wrong. First, you're not supposed to even draw the gun unless you're in fear of life of severe bodily harm. So why a warning at that point? Second, you're putting a round off into the unknown & may kill or injure an innocent person blocks away ( or in the apartment upstairs with ceiling shots ). Shot straight up have been known to come back down & kill. I understand that's common on the Middle East, when they start shooting into the air & a large crowd is around.

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Old November 21, 2005, 06:33 PM   #39
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Tucker, I don't live there anymore so I'm not concerned about it. Here in Florida, if I ever NEED to draw my weapon, I intend to use it.
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Old November 21, 2005, 06:37 PM   #40
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Like any other shot. Line up the sights on the BG and gently squeeze the trigger. Warning shot is a waste of ammo. If I feel the need to use my pistol, someone is going to have a bad day. And a short bad day at that.
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Old November 21, 2005, 09:27 PM   #41
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COM X 2 followed by BHG X 2 if first 2 warning shots were ineffective
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Old November 22, 2005, 04:36 PM   #42
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Warning shots, shooting a fleeing suspect...

At my agency we're forbidden from firing warning shots. As far as the legality of shooting a fleeing suspect, the rule we're taught is it's legal only if they pose an immediate threat of violence (i.e. they're carrying a weapon, there are other citizens present for them to harm, etc.)

This, like most legalities, is subjective and gets evaluated and hashed out later in the shooting investigation, so you can't really give a "for example" scenario.

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Old November 23, 2005, 09:12 PM   #43
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Not having ever fired in anger, all sources that I have studied both in the military and in the civilian world say that your first warning should be shot center mass.
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Old November 24, 2005, 12:39 AM   #44
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Go back and find the deputy and tell him to read up on case law concerning the use of force/deadly force because he doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground.
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Old November 24, 2005, 01:01 AM   #45
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If you need to draw a weapon, the situation has already deteriorated to the point that further warning of any kind is a waste of time and might well be hazardous to your own health. The only "warning shot" that is fired should be the one (or two, or three!) that enters the bad guy's X-ring.
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