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Old September 23, 2005, 08:08 PM   #26
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Wow. Lots of replies. I appreciate that.

I subscribe to the "broken windows" concept of crime prevention which is basically that if you allow a small problem (i.e., broken windows in abandoned businesses) to go unaddressed, the problems will worsen and eventually become out of control.
For some psychological reason unknown to me, it's a proven fact that litter encourages crime.
You guys hit the nail on the head. I don't think the problem is gangs so much as it is riff-raff. Small stuff is just now starting to attract the more serious stuff.

I talked to Dad's boss today. He says the landlord is going to "do something." Sounds to me like an empty promise. The riff-raff hang out in a treed lot next door. Boss is trying to get the county to get the vacant lot cut clean, which I think is a real possibility. Talking to him today, I think he's ready to sell the business anyway.

Selling the business? That has me thinking about buying it for the right price. Which also has me thinking harder about how to deal with the problem. If it were me, I'd get better insured for the property. And take some of the more preventative measures, to deter crime (I've gotten a lot of those from this thread), rather than focusing so much on what to do to stop a criminal who has made up his mind to victimize me.

As for moving, I don't think there really is anywhere to move where they would be safer for the same rent. Besides, these two guys aren't the type to let people like that run them off.
I suggest NO fake exterior cameras - bad legal precedents.
Personally, I'd never buy a fake camera. Real ones are so cheap nowadays, I have one on my house. But bad legal precedents? How so?
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Old September 24, 2005, 04:46 PM   #27
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No Fake Cameras

A number of successful lawsuits have been brought over "providing an expectation of security without providing it" when fake cameras were installed outside. If you tell people that the cameras are fake (to avoid any expectation of security) what good are they then? Often a problem is better left unaddressed than poorly "fixed". A battery powered "fake" camera that pans and appears quite real is about $50; a decent quality exterior "real" camera can be bought for about $90. The camera is only part of the system, but I don't think you will find a security professional that will recommend a fake camera for exterior installation. Obviously, the decision is that of the user, but that was (and is) my suggestion.


When I was in high school, I worked afternoons and Saturdays at a Studebaker dealership. We had winos and other non-working types hanging around. As you can imagine, this was long before it became fashionable in certain circles to blame proverty on someone in government. Proverty causes crime about like flies cause garbage!

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Old September 24, 2005, 04:53 PM   #28
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The best thing to do is to hire a security outfit that specializes in dogs. Leave one locked inside the building at night. The only problem with this is that the outfit will have to put the dog in every night and take it out every morning before work.
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Old September 24, 2005, 10:16 PM   #29
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Illegal aliens causing crime in America???? I thought they just wanted to earn a decent living here........HA..HA..HA...HA..HA..HA...HA...ha...ha....ha.....ha......ha.......ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old September 25, 2005, 08:37 AM   #30
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A number of successful lawsuits have been brought over "providing an expectation of security without providing it" when fake cameras were installed outside.
Oh, O.K., thanks.

When I was in high school, I worked afternoons and Saturdays at a Studebaker dealership.
Sounds like you've been around long enough to know what works.
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Old September 25, 2005, 12:49 PM   #31
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The instructor of my CWP/self defense class was a retired LEO. He also does security consulting, etc. He said that when you ask the scumbags themselves, they say that the deterrent that most makes them go looking for easier pickings is a loud dog. Doesn't have to be ferocious, just has to be loud, and not the type to friendly up to strangers. I'd start with that and then continue with lights, then cameras, and the other good suggestions on this thread.

Good luck to your dad and partner, and kudos to them for not wanting to be run off. This is still our country...if we can keep it.
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Old September 26, 2005, 07:26 AM   #32
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You can't solve any problems by just throwing money at them. The Federal government proves that fact every year.
Ever notice how many of the rural areas where Johnson kicked off the "War on Poverty" are STILL dirt poor, some 3 plus decades later?
In the meantime nationwide the violent crime rate has gone down, and the govt. is scratching its head because it cannot bring itself to admit the real reason - Because 33 states have right to carry laws, and there is no way the feds can take credit for it.
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Old September 30, 2005, 12:58 AM   #33
Randy in Arizona
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[Dons flame retardant clothing]

One thing that has been proven to repel some undesirable elements is Classical Music. Some mini-malls have started playing ‘Muzak’ style music and found it repels the winos, etc.

So when you put up the extra lights, install some outdoor speakers in shielded housings. Then play classic and/or smooth instrumental music to repel the goblins.

[Climbs into dugout to await the flaming]
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Old September 30, 2005, 12:03 PM   #34
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Ooo ooo ooo! Put on some Wagner! Not only will it drive the winos away screaming, but "Ride of the Valkyries" will call in Air Cav for mop up!
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Old September 30, 2005, 01:14 PM   #35
Harley Quinn
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Hi, I bought a Lark in 1963, 289 4 spd trans. fast little car.
But They went out of business like within the week LOL.. No biggie I really liked that car.

The using of security is the best way, as in patrol and lights and checking on the people hanging out. They will move on.

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