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Old August 1, 2000, 07:08 PM   #26
Ron Ankeny
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Join Date: April 3, 2000
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I was just playing the "devil's advocate". I carried a handgun with me for years. Nowadays, I just carry the bear spray in the summer and a rifle when I hunt. I just don't see the need for a pistol, but I do keep my rifle loaded when around the "kill" if I am in bear country.
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Old August 2, 2000, 11:09 AM   #27
Randy Garrett
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Location: Chehalis, WA
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Lets remember that ammunition selection trumps caliber selection everytime. Although bigger, more powerful calibers make sense for defense in the woods, the greater determiner of impact effect will be the bullets used. For instance, a 45 ACP with hard-cast bullets will always outpenetrate a magnum revolver with expanding bullets. Given that, the caliber which gives the most penetration (assuming reasonable diameter) is better than the caliber that produces less penetration, regardless of the comparative power generation. Pursuit of effectiveness through power generation will lead to significant recoil, something that can get in the way, but does not necessarily lead to improved impact-effect. Shooting as big a gun as we can handle makes sense in the woods for defense, but, if not combined with proper bullet selection, can lead to underpenetration and less than desired results. Select your bullets as carefully as you select your caliber!

Best regards, Randy Garrett
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Old August 2, 2000, 01:45 PM   #28
J. Parker
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Join Date: May 12, 2000
Location: Ephrata, wa. USA
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Randy; Well said. Believe me, I'm no expert but I read somewhere that ft. lbs. of energy are a big determining factor in Knock Down or Killing Power. Let's take my Glock 21 for example; I know it's not a great woods calibre but if I took it into the woods do I load it with the highest energy ammo or the highest penetrating ammo? Best Regards, J. Parker
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Old August 2, 2000, 03:05 PM   #29
Randy Garrett
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J. Parker: I'm just not a believer in energy transfer being a significant killing agent. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, which tells me that if power transfer killed the animal, it would also kill the shooter. Tissue destruction is the killing mechanism, and if high energy loadings don't destroy enough tissue due to the shallow penetration of expanding bullets, it is pretty hard to understand how they kill better. Although I believe in carrying as much gun as possible, I would always rather carry a lesser caliber with a better bullet than a greater caliber with a lesser bullet. If a guy is firing a caliber that provides all the penetration necessary with expanding bullets, depending upon the size of the game, then expanding bullets are the best choice. However, expanding bullets from the handgun invariably produce shallow penetration, so I tend to be predisposed towards blunt non-expanding bullets when the game is heavy, like black bear. A good example of this is the PMC Starfire load for the 44 Magnum. In wet newspaper, this load only produces about 5-inches of penetration. This is the same amount of penetration produced by the tiny 22 rimfire from the handgun! Yet the power differnce is huge. By comparison, your 10MM loaded with hard-cast bullets can produce about 18-inches of penetration in wet newspaper. Calibers are defined by the bullets they push, and by selecting the right bullet for the job, most guns can greatly extend their performance. potential. I would recommend that if you are carry for protection from cats, that you load you 10MM with heavy expanding bullets, but if you are loading for defense from black bears that you load hard-cast bullets with as much meplat diameter as your gun will allow.

Best regards, Randy Garrett
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Old August 2, 2000, 09:57 PM   #30
Art Eatman
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Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
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Randy's comments parallel those of Ross Seyfried, who's known for hunting great big things with handguns. Hard cast lead, big meplat...

, Art
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Old August 3, 2000, 01:27 PM   #31
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Join Date: July 28, 1999
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,454
I usually carry a vaquero 44 mag full of winchester 240 grain soft points as a back up to my 30-06.. since my 06 doesn't have sights.. if you bust the scope you are out of luck. Also when we hunt the jack pines you can't get a rifle on target in a hurry.. so you sling it and use the pistol. 41 mag is the minimum caliber for big game (read deer elk antelope bear lion) in Colorado. I also keep a 12 guage with a slug barrel in the truck in case i bust my rifle or drop it off a cliff or what ever a 12 ga. slug will drop an elk.. but the other hunters sure do give you a funny look when you show up carrying a scattergun.

back to work,

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Old August 3, 2000, 07:58 PM   #32
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I carry a Hi-Cap Semi-Auto 9mm as a back-up while hunting White-Tail in the mountains. Looking to get a 44mag for this season.

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