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Old January 12, 2000, 02:24 PM   #1
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Join Date: May 31, 1999
Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC
Posts: 7,548
i posted this in responce to a new guy on a list 2day
thought y'all might get a giggle:

This brings me to the next question. (pardon me for my lack of
experience with firearms and ballistics)
If I were to be in the woods and come to a need to take down a bear,
lion, tiger etc,
Would 10rds of .223 do the job?
>>>> /snip <<<<

yes, although an elbow stike, a half nelson and a roll,
took down the last bruin, i encountered in the woods!
(actually, we agreed to disagree over the ownership of the log i was sitting by)

10 rounds of .223 PROPERLY applied should be able to stop anything on the planet.
Arguing over the definition of "the proper application" is what makes this list so entertaining.

If i was in the woods, discovered a tiger was there and all i had was my AR & 10 rounds,
i would prolly, exit stage left and consider evaluating the kool aid in my canteen.
If i was out in the woods, discovered a tiger hunting me and all i had was an AR & 10 rounds,
i would endeavor to prove, the tool wielding hominid right, to pave the planet.
Exposed to the stealth charge mode of the tiger, i would expect taste just like chicken.
: )

doc Zox

"walk softly and carry a big stick, one that goes bang in .308 is fine"
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Old January 12, 2000, 04:17 PM   #2
Robert the41MagFan
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Join Date: November 18, 1999
Posts: 1,233
Cats are some of the most hardy animals that live in the forest and can take more punishment than what most people (myself included) think. From first hand experience, I was attacked by a cougar, that theory has one major flaw. No one will have time to get 10 shots off in time, if any at all. These animals strike extremely fast. In my situation, the cougar was about 70 yards out when I caught him from the corner of my eye. The cougar charged at me, was only able to get three shots off. This was a very fast gun, a S&W 627 with a 63mm dot and the gun was already in my hands. That poor critter was taking JHP's like nothing I have ever seen. The third shot was a little bit more than what he bargained for and he exited under full power, as though he had not been hit at all. If the cougar would have been a bit more persistent, he would have landed on me. He certainly had the strength to do so.

A hungry cat against a unsuspecting hunter with a 223, I will put my money on the cat.


[This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited January 12, 2000).]
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Old January 13, 2000, 02:57 PM   #3
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Join Date: July 28, 1999
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,454
Can't think of anywhere in the world where shooting a tiger is legal or ethical.

Whacking sigfried and roy with a full auto paintball gun might be fun though.

223 is made for killing people, not deer and CERTAINLY not animals with teeth and claws. 375 H&H is the minimum caliber for dangerous game for a reason.

Having said that you don't HAVE to have one to go in the woods in north america. If you are talking Kodiak and Polar bears.. stick that 223 in your ear and shoot yourself.. that way you won't feel the discmfort of being chewed on. Beter to have him read the BEARS thread started by Rabdy Garret.. and the "Prevention vs Cure" argument that ensued.

Your best defense is your big clever brain, use it.

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Old January 13, 2000, 07:03 PM   #4
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Join Date: August 3, 1999
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 475
Interesting post, Robert the 41 Mag Fan. Not having much experience with predators other than "feral" dog packs or coyotes, it's good to hear some real-life stories.

Dr. Rob- I know quite a few people who deer hunt in Texas with .22 centerfires of various flavors, the .223 being one of them. Your point is well taken however, the cartridge was drafted from the varmint hunting world and put into uniform as a battle round.

In addition to Randy Garrett's threads on bear defense, there is another member who sometimes posts here who has his own website concerning an attack by a large bear on him. I don't have the URL but his name is Keith Rogan.
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Old January 15, 2000, 12:00 PM   #5
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Join Date: May 31, 1999
Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC
Posts: 7,548
.499 in an AR should stop a kitty!

This highly compact, lightweight and dependable weapon delivers a 400-grain bullet
at a muzzle velocity of 1600 fps for overwhelming terminal ballistics
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