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Old April 20, 2005, 10:18 PM   #26
Senior Member
Join Date: April 17, 2005
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 318
Pin Shooting with .38 Special Wadcutters . . .

. . . is quite dangerous, as he bounceback hazard is severe. If you haven't been hit with a full bullet bounceback, consider yourself most fortunate.

BTW, what kind of pin table setup do you have where a .32 H&R Magnum will work. Do you have steel surfaced tables with a full three feet of table behind the pins?

The tables at our club are this way, and the 9x19 115gr FMJ (much more powerful than the .32 H&R Magnum) always leaves deadwood, no matter where they are hit.

Also, the fastest runs possible on a two-tiered table is where the last pin shot is from the upper level and it falls all the way to the ground without hitting the lower level. My extensive studies in this area shows that the shooter can save about 0.3 seconds by shooting an upper level pin last with a bullet that delivers a power factor of at least 210000.

At Second Chance (I sure miss it!), 0.3 seconds times five runs = 1.5 seconds saved in the aggregate, the difference between a gun at the prize table and a groin protector!
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Old April 21, 2005, 12:44 AM   #27
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Join Date: October 15, 2004
Posts: 934
I was shooting off a plywood table with a full three feet to the rear and I was not shooting in competition or for time. All I was doing was establishing to my own satisfaction exactly what it took to take pins off. The results were exactly as I have told you.

That very well may not translate to competition results. My club very quickly dropped pin shooting because the range would not contain the ricochets.
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Old April 21, 2005, 11:35 AM   #28
Join Date: April 13, 2005
Location: NH
Posts: 42
Attempting to pull it back on topic, pushing the Envelope

I’ve seen a lot of recipes using of 231 with heavier bullets. I’ve never used it, I’ve used a lot of WSF and a quarter of a tin of HP-38 for 9mm, and I’ve traded the 9 for a 45 revolver. The performance of the 9 just wasn’t there in many arenas.

In attempting to understand how a powder will react I looked at a number of burn rate charts. Using simple averaging of data, I surmised these relative rates for these powders. Hp-38 (16.4) and W231 (17.4) run neck and neck as fast, N330 (19.9) a tad slower. WSF (29.8) and brining up the rear is No7 (39)

Comparing HP-38 to WSF to me would seem close, comparison of 231 and WSF could it be similar?
Should I attempt to use HP-38 with the 215gr bullet?

WSF seams to be OK a bit sooty though. The 231 uses slightly less per cartridge so it would be more economical, slightly. I would need some convincing about any powder change. I don’t want some of this and that hanging around in my locker getting stale like the HP-38 taking up space. I would like to stay with WSF for that works well in my Kimber, but if a better powder needs to be used in S&W so be it.

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Old April 21, 2005, 12:29 PM   #29
Norm Lee
Join Date: January 3, 2001
Location: Nassau Bay
Posts: 81
Pin Loads

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

45 ACP 235 SWC 700-X 5.4 955.00 476 224
45 ACP 235 SWC AA-5 8.3 950.00 471 223
45 ACP 255 rnfp Unique 6.6 895.00 454 228
45 ACP 235 SWC VVN350 6.7 800.00 334 188
45 ACP 235 SWC VVN350 6.9 860.00 386 202
45 ACP 235 SWC VVN350 7.1 870.00 395 204
45 ACP 235 SWC VVN350 7.3 900.00 423 212
45 ACP 235 SWC VVN350 7.4 925.00 447 217
Most of these are pretty well-behaved.The 700-X load is a little "sporting". I think I lost a grip panel with one of those. The Unique version with the heavy bullet seemed OK in my gun but it's not a starting load and should be approached with some caution. The Vihta Vuori N 350 loads were just excellent. 7.1 gr seemed to yield the best all around erformance. Above that, the recoil was a detriment to speed and brass life was noticeably shorter.

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Old April 21, 2005, 12:30 PM   #30
Norm Lee
Join Date: January 3, 2001
Location: Nassau Bay
Posts: 81
I miss Second Chance too


Just wanted to tell you I really enjoyed your book.

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