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Old November 13, 2018, 02:13 AM   #74
JohnKSa
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Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 22,097
Quote:
...some are attempting to paint the captured Germans as if they were a bunch of naive and misguided, peace loving Boyscouts.
To the extent that the discussion has touched on what the rank & file Germans knew or didn't know, what they were or weren't, it was merely to answer incorrect assertions. It was not to paint them in a rosy light--because in reality, as has been stated a number of times, all that is totally irrelevant to the critical issue.

The bottom line is that shooting someone (even a POW) who doesn't pose a threat is murder.
  • It has absolutely NOTHING to do with how good or how bad the person (or POW) was in his life up to that point.
  • It has absolutely NOTHING to do with who shoots the person (or POW) or what army that shooter serves in or what country the shooter is a citizen of.
  • It has absolutely NOTHING to do with what country the victim is a citizen of or what army the victim may have served in.
Quote:
The argument has become a non productive game of competitive urination.
This is not just some philosophical difference here, nor is the central point really Askins' character qualities; there are critically important principles that apply to all of us today. This discussion isn't just about an incident that took place in the middle of the last century, the general concepts are still valid.
  • There is no legal justification for shooting people simply because they are bad. Not even if they are REALLY, REALLY bad. Not even if they are REALLY bad AND are committing a non-violent crime at the moment of the shooting. Shooting people is allowed only to prevent the imminent death or serious injury of an innocent.
  • There is no legal justification for shooting people because they are or have been or are probably associated with other really bad people. Even if those other people are so bad that they make satan incarnate look like Mr. Rogers. Shooting people is only allowed to prevent the imminent death or serious injury of an innocent.
  • There is no legal justification for shooting someone to punish them for things that they did or might have done in the past. No matter how bad those things may have been. Shooting people is allowed only to prevent the imminent death or serious injury of an innocent.
We see a lot of what appears to be popular support for revenge type activities in movies, but make no mistake. That "popular support" does NOT extend to the courts. Even when heinous crimes are committed against family members, the courts will still hold people responsible for taking the law into their own hands and choosing to punish the criminals after the fact for their atrocities. The Plauche case is a perfect example of this.

Believe what you want about the German POW. Make up whatever history you want for him. Believe what you want about Askins. Make up whatever history you want for him. NONE OF THAT MATTERS.

Based on facts in Askins' own account, what he did was murder because nothing in his account states, suggests, or so much as hints that it was his reasonable fear of imminent death or serious injury that led him to fire the shot. Anyone who doesn't understand that fact needs to step back and do a serious re-evaluation of their concepts of what justifiable deadly force looks like. Reality is that we will be held to existing legal standards, not judged based on our own personal ideas about what justifies deadly force.

Getting it wrong is not an option for many reasons.

Here's what it looks like when someone gets it wrong.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...ges/ar-BBODl0j

The man wearing orange in the mugshot is a "good guy" --the city commissioner for Lakeland, FL, a strong advocate of gun ownership and the owner of a community business. He shot a "bad guy" (a person with a felony criminal record) who was committing a crime (shoplifting) and who had a potentially deadly weapon on his person (hatchet). But he has resigned his position, and is in jail without bond, charged with murder because his actions in the video clearly show that he was not in any danger.
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