The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - What matters is shot placement. Actual bank robbery shooting.

**OldMarksman** · September 9, 2011, 08:30 AM

Wow.

We have someone drawing conclusions from a single gunfight, with some importance attributed to which of the wounded survived and which did not.

We have reference to "a caliber despised for allegedly lacking stopping power (9mm)".

We have someone believing that a "valid CCW and a decent shot group" equips him for a violent encounter with one or more assailants....

...who contends that, in an encounter in which deadly force is justified because it is immediately necessary to defend against imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm, he will somehow be able to shoot an attacker in the face nine times before being overcome.

We have people introducing hunting experience and the slaughter of livestock into the discussion.

All of this is under a topic called "what matters is shot placement."

So, what should the neophyte take into account?

From threegun, "shot placement is what matters once you have a cartridge that can reach the vitals even through appendages"; many people consider a .380 ACP to be the minimum for that, while others would opt for at least a .38 Special or a 9MM.
The assailant is likely to be moving rapidly, and one's ability to produce decent groups on a stationary target is unlikely to translate into an ability to hit that assailant in any particular place.
It is likely that two or perhaps several very rapid shots will be required to hit and effectively stop the assailant; that means that a firearm that is too light to control in rapid fire, or a cartridge that recoils too violently, would not be a good choice.

Finally, relevant training is extremely important.

September 9, 2011, 08:30 AM	#48
OldMarksman Staff Join Date: June 8, 2008 Posts: 4,022	Wow. We have someone drawing conclusions from a single gunfight, with some importance attributed to which of the wounded survived and which did not. We have reference to "a caliber despised for allegedly lacking stopping power (9mm)". We have someone believing that a "valid CCW and a decent shot group" equips him for a violent encounter with one or more assailants.... ...who contends that, in an encounter in which deadly force is justified because it is immediately necessary to defend against imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm, he will somehow be able to shoot an attacker in the face nine times before being overcome. We have people introducing hunting experience and the slaughter of livestock into the discussion. All of this is under a topic called "what matters is shot placement." So, what should the neophyte take into account? From threegun, "shot placement is what matters once you have a cartridge that can reach the vitals even through appendages"; many people consider a .380 ACP to be the minimum for that, while others would opt for at least a .38 Special or a 9MM. The assailant is likely to be moving rapidly, and one's ability to produce decent groups on a stationary target is unlikely to translate into an ability to hit that assailant in any particular place. It is likely that two or perhaps several very rapid shots will be required to hit and effectively stop the assailant; that means that a firearm that is too light to control in rapid fire, or a cartridge that recoils too violently, would not be a good choice. Finally, relevant training is extremely important.