The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Perp shot multiple times 40S&W and 223 still fighting when cuffed

N.H. Yankee · June 19, 2009, 05:00 PM

Gunfight survival training can only go so far, the rest is up to ones ability to focus, along with accuracy and LUCK! We all shoot targets but when the target is shooting back time either goes SloMo or 100MPH. This is where training equals Instinct, but not everyone is wired the same and some people just flat out panic.

Fact is every traumatic situation is different in itself and situations can have an impact on the best of us to the point we don't perform as we did in previous incidents. Thank God none of the officers were killed, I think under the circumstances they did OK for themselves. Looking at the hits is one thing for us, we weren't there and have no real idea what there were for barriers protecting the perp.

Sadly spray and pray incidents involving law enforcement has given the LEO community a black eye and many incidents like this get negative reviews. All in all it turned out right, despite some wounds to law enforcement. No one can insure one shot stop under the best of circumstances, Iv'e read the brain still functions for about 15 seconds with the heart stopped, thats plenty of time for the assailant to do plenty of damage.

I never had much faith in the Sanow Marshall one shot stop rating. One shot stop, could mean anything. The perp got hit once who knows where and gave up? The term ( One shot stop ) doesn't explain the scenerio at all unless its one shot kill. I think the majority of perps give it up after being shot, this guy had a small amount of drugs in his system but was it enough for him to keep fighting?

I think there are many facts about this incident that are missing and would really like the WHOLE story. Four layers of denim and only 1 inch penetration? Heck my Daisy Red Rider can do better than that! I think the coroners report is either incomplete, the coroner wasn't well trained or as I said other facts are absent. Like others have said the bullets must have hit a barrier of some sort. It just doesn't make sense, even if the nose plugged up then it would act more like a FMJ, but the report said that 5 out of 6 were expanded.

June 19, 2009, 05:00 PM	#17
N.H. Yankee Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2004 Location: Rural N.H. Posts: 1,586	Gunfight survival training can only go so far, the rest is up to ones ability to focus, along with accuracy and LUCK! We all shoot targets but when the target is shooting back time either goes SloMo or 100MPH. This is where training equals Instinct, but not everyone is wired the same and some people just flat out panic. Fact is every traumatic situation is different in itself and situations can have an impact on the best of us to the point we don't perform as we did in previous incidents. Thank God none of the officers were killed, I think under the circumstances they did OK for themselves. Looking at the hits is one thing for us, we weren't there and have no real idea what there were for barriers protecting the perp. Sadly spray and pray incidents involving law enforcement has given the LEO community a black eye and many incidents like this get negative reviews. All in all it turned out right, despite some wounds to law enforcement. No one can insure one shot stop under the best of circumstances, Iv'e read the brain still functions for about 15 seconds with the heart stopped, thats plenty of time for the assailant to do plenty of damage. I never had much faith in the Sanow Marshall one shot stop rating. One shot stop, could mean anything. The perp got hit once who knows where and gave up? The term ( One shot stop ) doesn't explain the scenerio at all unless its one shot kill. I think the majority of perps give it up after being shot, this guy had a small amount of drugs in his system but was it enough for him to keep fighting? I think there are many facts about this incident that are missing and would really like the WHOLE story. Four layers of denim and only 1 inch penetration? Heck my Daisy Red Rider can do better than that! I think the coroners report is either incomplete, the coroner wasn't well trained or as I said other facts are absent. Like others have said the bullets must have hit a barrier of some sort. It just doesn't make sense, even if the nose plugged up then it would act more like a FMJ, but the report said that 5 out of 6 were expanded. __________________ The real danger to America is not abroad but within.. Having an open mind is a good thing, but not so open that your brains fall out! Save America, abort liberalism. Last edited by N.H. Yankee; June 19, 2009 at 05:06 PM.