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F. Guffey · November 10, 2012, 11:14 AM

“i appreciate all advice but i will admit that I'm confused now because i have read in so many places that neck sizing (when using fire formed brass in the same gun exclusively) yields the best results from a precision standpoint”

“I understood that a case that's formed to a specific chamber will bring the most consistent results. Is this more misconception than fact”

It is not fair, when I eject a fired case it comes out as a fired case, if I eject the case after firing it for the first time it comes out as a once fired case. I could measure the case to deterring the effect the chamber had on the case when fired but as A RELOADER I knew the effect the chamber would have on the case when fired. I form first then fire.

Skill Level: fire forming is a matter of chambering a round and pulling the trigger. I am more impressed with reloaders that measure the dimension of the case before firing and again after firing, then there are the ‘snap-backs and spring-backs, the fired case offers no information because it snaps/springs back?’. My cases recover with little memory of what they were before the trigger was pulled, unless they get hammered, again, I am the fan of air between the case body and the chamber, not a lot, just a little because I am the fan of ‘time is a factor.

I form first then fire, I eject once fired cases. I cut down on case travel by matching the length of the case with the length of the chamber. It sounds impressive, “I seat my bullets .002” off the lands”, all I want to know is the distance from the bolt face to the beginning of the lands, I do not want my bullets setting at the lands when everything behind the bullet is getting serious, I want my bullets to have a running start, I am the fan of the bullet having a jump, not a problem setting up the seater die, I transfer the measurement from the chamber to the die, then back to the chamber, I did not say I did not have some nice tools, I said they were not necessary, again, I am the fan of transfers, standards and verifying.

The dial indicator on top of seating dies is impressive, in appearance, a reloader with a height gage and or a dial caliper can accomplish the same accuracy, all they need to know is ‘where is zero’, I transfer that measurement from the chamber to the seating die, then! ZERO.

“from a precision standpoint” ?

from the standpoint of cutting down on case travel from the head of the case to its shoulder, yes, avoiding full length sizing can extends the life of the case, to hear some versions ONE would believe the case jumps up, turns around, flips then recovers and aligns with the chamber after being fired.

Again, for $120.00 I bid on and won a rifle that was declared the ugliest rifle rifle ever built, the choir on forums jumped on it, I ask them to hold off, I did not want the rifle to become famous before the auction ended, my effort paid off 1 out of 10 cooperated, I had the rifle shipped to Carrolton, TX, I warned my friend, he got it half way out of the box and put it back, too ugly, I could not believe someone could build something that ugly without knowing what he was doing, sure enough, I took 12 different loads of 10 rounds each to the range, new cases, once fired cases, formed cases, different powder and bullets. each group could be covered with a quarter, some groups shared the same hole. Again, I did not believe the person that built the rifle knew nothing, he was kind enough to scribe his driver license # across the top of the rear receiver ring. I thought I was safe when I bid on the sum of all the parts, the Timney trigger was worth $70.00, the stock is embellished with at least 3 different woods, the oak enhances stability, the oak does else.

Point? If I change anything about this rifle I change the accuracy, if ammo was the controlling factor it would seem the rifle would have found something it did not like, then there is the $150.00 rifle made by Santa Fe, a most magnificent rifle. I purchased the rifle for the receiver, I have an 03A4 barrel that is chambered to 308 Norma Mag. the accuracy of the Santa Fe shooting the R-P ammo purchased with the rifle (from SEARS) in the early 60s indicates I can not improve on the accuracy.

F. Guffey

November 10, 2012, 11:14 AM	#24
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	“i appreciate all advice but i will admit that I'm confused now because i have read in so many places that neck sizing (when using fire formed brass in the same gun exclusively) yields the best results from a precision standpoint” “I understood that a case that's formed to a specific chamber will bring the most consistent results. Is this more misconception than fact” It is not fair, when I eject a fired case it comes out as a fired case, if I eject the case after firing it for the first time it comes out as a once fired case. I could measure the case to deterring the effect the chamber had on the case when fired but as A RELOADER I knew the effect the chamber would have on the case when fired. I form first then fire. Skill Level: fire forming is a matter of chambering a round and pulling the trigger. I am more impressed with reloaders that measure the dimension of the case before firing and again after firing, then there are the ‘snap-backs and spring-backs, the fired case offers no information because it snaps/springs back?’. My cases recover with little memory of what they were before the trigger was pulled, unless they get hammered, again, I am the fan of air between the case body and the chamber, not a lot, just a little because I am the fan of ‘time is a factor. I form first then fire, I eject once fired cases. I cut down on case travel by matching the length of the case with the length of the chamber. It sounds impressive, “I seat my bullets .002” off the lands”, all I want to know is the distance from the bolt face to the beginning of the lands, I do not want my bullets setting at the lands when everything behind the bullet is getting serious, I want my bullets to have a running start, I am the fan of the bullet having a jump, not a problem setting up the seater die, I transfer the measurement from the chamber to the die, then back to the chamber, I did not say I did not have some nice tools, I said they were not necessary, again, I am the fan of transfers, standards and verifying. The dial indicator on top of seating dies is impressive, in appearance, a reloader with a height gage and or a dial caliper can accomplish the same accuracy, all they need to know is ‘where is zero’, I transfer that measurement from the chamber to the seating die, then! ZERO. “from a precision standpoint” ? from the standpoint of cutting down on case travel from the head of the case to its shoulder, yes, avoiding full length sizing can extends the life of the case, to hear some versions ONE would believe the case jumps up, turns around, flips then recovers and aligns with the chamber after being fired. Again, for $120.00 I bid on and won a rifle that was declared the ugliest rifle rifle ever built, the choir on forums jumped on it, I ask them to hold off, I did not want the rifle to become famous before the auction ended, my effort paid off 1 out of 10 cooperated, I had the rifle shipped to Carrolton, TX, I warned my friend, he got it half way out of the box and put it back, too ugly, I could not believe someone could build something that ugly without knowing what he was doing, sure enough, I took 12 different loads of 10 rounds each to the range, new cases, once fired cases, formed cases, different powder and bullets. each group could be covered with a quarter, some groups shared the same hole. Again, I did not believe the person that built the rifle knew nothing, he was kind enough to scribe his driver license # across the top of the rear receiver ring. I thought I was safe when I bid on the sum of all the parts, the Timney trigger was worth $70.00, the stock is embellished with at least 3 different woods, the oak enhances stability, the oak does else. Point? If I change anything about this rifle I change the accuracy, if ammo was the controlling factor it would seem the rifle would have found something it did not like, then there is the $150.00 rifle made by Santa Fe, a most magnificent rifle. I purchased the rifle for the receiver, I have an 03A4 barrel that is chambered to 308 Norma Mag. the accuracy of the Santa Fe shooting the R-P ammo purchased with the rifle (from SEARS) in the early 60s indicates I can not improve on the accuracy. F. Guffey