The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post

HiBC · June 17, 2013, 09:51 PM

I am no authority on Carlos Hathcock.Could be I am wrong,but it seems I heard something about the rifle he got business done with was good for about 3 MOA.

A whole lot have deer have been killed with "deer rifles" and a lot of deer rifles get business done shoot about 3 moa.

Generally,the standard for a military battle rifle is about 3 moa.

IMO,a whole lot of serious rifle work can be done with a 3moa battle rifle,especially since the original topic is set to a CMP vintage clinic.

CMP Garands make for a pretty level playing field.I doubt very many of them shoot much better than 2 moa,and my unimformed guess is CMP does not ship many that won't do 3 moa.Everybody has the same sights and a military trigger.

Kraig is trying to pass on the skills and experience he has.He is going out of his way to teach regular folks how to poke holes.
If a person will practice what kraig is teaching,they can use any rifle on the line,any service grade M-1,any Springfield or SMLE,handloads or Greek surplus from CMP,lay down,sling up and put them in the black.

In the context of what Kraig is doing,it can't be bought.You just can't buy what Kraig is trying to give.

Given equal skill levels,at an introductory clinic,it does not matter a didly if you show up with a well worn rack grade 3 moa bayonet pole or a National Match grade Kreiger barreled 1 moa piece that you can't pick up by the forend.Remember,the diameter of a group is created by the radius times two.The difference from center is 1/2 in for a 1 moa rifle and 1 1/2 in for a three moa rifle.The difference is one inch.OK

If bayonet pole shooter shoots a 5 in group in the black,and tackdriver shooter shoots a 5 in group in the black,bayonet pole shooter is doing everything better than tackdriver shooter.

If you are a tackdriver shooter shooting 7 moa,it is time to stop being distracted by hardware.Put that rifle down,if necessary.With a worn,GI rack gun,position,natural point of aim,breathing,sighting,trigger squeeze,follow through...dry fire,practice,and you will poke holes in the black.

The other stuff is great,but its in a different class,at a different school.

June 17, 2013, 09:51 PM	#35
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	I am no authority on Carlos Hathcock.Could be I am wrong,but it seems I heard something about the rifle he got business done with was good for about 3 MOA. A whole lot have deer have been killed with "deer rifles" and a lot of deer rifles get business done shoot about 3 moa. Generally,the standard for a military battle rifle is about 3 moa. IMO,a whole lot of serious rifle work can be done with a 3moa battle rifle,especially since the original topic is set to a CMP vintage clinic. CMP Garands make for a pretty level playing field.I doubt very many of them shoot much better than 2 moa,and my unimformed guess is CMP does not ship many that won't do 3 moa.Everybody has the same sights and a military trigger. Kraig is trying to pass on the skills and experience he has.He is going out of his way to teach regular folks how to poke holes. If a person will practice what kraig is teaching,they can use any rifle on the line,any service grade M-1,any Springfield or SMLE,handloads or Greek surplus from CMP,lay down,sling up and put them in the black. In the context of what Kraig is doing,it can't be bought.You just can't buy what Kraig is trying to give. Given equal skill levels,at an introductory clinic,it does not matter a didly if you show up with a well worn rack grade 3 moa bayonet pole or a National Match grade Kreiger barreled 1 moa piece that you can't pick up by the forend.Remember,the diameter of a group is created by the radius times two.The difference from center is 1/2 in for a 1 moa rifle and 1 1/2 in for a three moa rifle.The difference is one inch.OK If bayonet pole shooter shoots a 5 in group in the black,and tackdriver shooter shoots a 5 in group in the black,bayonet pole shooter is doing everything better than tackdriver shooter. If you are a tackdriver shooter shooting 7 moa,it is time to stop being distracted by hardware.Put that rifle down,if necessary.With a worn,GI rack gun,position,natural point of aim,breathing,sighting,trigger squeeze,follow through...dry fire,practice,and you will poke holes in the black. The other stuff is great,but its in a different class,at a different school.