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MR.MILSURP · January 10, 2012, 12:53 PM

Old Today, 10:52 AM #29
tim s
Senior Member

Join Date: February 8, 2011
Posts: 146

Well that's interesting and fairly accurate. Both actions are quite strong BUT [there's always a but], there a couple items that should be taken into consideration. That Weatherby with the 9 lugs.... usually, most rifles that get built in the real world of manufacturing tolerances, rarely are any more that 5-6 of them that are actually engaged and mated to the action.
Those figures reported showing 200,000 psi pressure tested are probably accurate. Since I know several guys at Remington, You'd be amazed at how they pressure test the 700's but I'd tell you that current measuring capability goes somewhat north of 200,000 psi and they test well above that but it exceeds current testing equipment, it's thought to be in the mid 200K area however.

You hit a very good subject, true, all the locking lug area is not in contact in every design, but that's not the whole story. A Remington 660 actually has more contact area of the bolt, in contact with the receiver, than a Mauser 98 does. It's listed right in the de Haas book in the 660 section. But the 660 has the lugs in the rear of the bolt, which is inherently weaker and compresses the bolt each time it's fired. So the M98 is still the better design.

BTW, if you haven't purchased and read the de Haas book, I'd highly recommend you buy it, and commit it to memory, if you ever want to be knowledgeable about guns at a gun show. You'll find 60% of the bs on the net message boards is just that. If you don't research this stuff, you're a babe in the woods, and dead meat to a savvy vendor- because no one has enough time or money today, to buy all those actions, and test and examine them, like de Haas did back in the 1960's. If you don't have that book on your shelf, you're not even serious about rifle shooting and collecting yet. It gets into design specs as well as common everyday concerns with guns.

Metallurgy comes into play as well. More contact area from a soft action, or an action that is too brittle, means a net loss in safety and strength. It all boils down to the type of steel, alloys used, heat treat, machining, etc. The whole package.

That's why relatively homely looking rifles like Husqvarna, Sako, Carl Gustafs, etc. have such a great reputation and high desirability. The iron ore used in Swedish and other Scandinavian rifles is the best in the world, and the steel is second to none- regardless of how many lugs are where. Did you ever notice some of the most expensive, high-end guns, can be really dorky looking ?

January 10, 2012, 12:53 PM	#35
MR.MILSURP Member Join Date: February 1, 2010 Posts: 16	Old Today, 10:52 AM #29 tim s Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2011 Posts: 146 Well that's interesting and fairly accurate. Both actions are quite strong BUT [there's always a but], there a couple items that should be taken into consideration. That Weatherby with the 9 lugs.... usually, most rifles that get built in the real world of manufacturing tolerances, rarely are any more that 5-6 of them that are actually engaged and mated to the action. Those figures reported showing 200,000 psi pressure tested are probably accurate. Since I know several guys at Remington, You'd be amazed at how they pressure test the 700's but I'd tell you that current measuring capability goes somewhat north of 200,000 psi and they test well above that but it exceeds current testing equipment, it's thought to be in the mid 200K area however. You hit a very good subject, true, all the locking lug area is not in contact in every design, but that's not the whole story. A Remington 660 actually has more contact area of the bolt, in contact with the receiver, than a Mauser 98 does. It's listed right in the de Haas book in the 660 section. But the 660 has the lugs in the rear of the bolt, which is inherently weaker and compresses the bolt each time it's fired. So the M98 is still the better design. BTW, if you haven't purchased and read the de Haas book, I'd highly recommend you buy it, and commit it to memory, if you ever want to be knowledgeable about guns at a gun show. You'll find 60% of the bs on the net message boards is just that. If you don't research this stuff, you're a babe in the woods, and dead meat to a savvy vendor- because no one has enough time or money today, to buy all those actions, and test and examine them, like de Haas did back in the 1960's. If you don't have that book on your shelf, you're not even serious about rifle shooting and collecting yet. It gets into design specs as well as common everyday concerns with guns. Metallurgy comes into play as well. More contact area from a soft action, or an action that is too brittle, means a net loss in safety and strength. It all boils down to the type of steel, alloys used, heat treat, machining, etc. The whole package. That's why relatively homely looking rifles like Husqvarna, Sako, Carl Gustafs, etc. have such a great reputation and high desirability. The iron ore used in Swedish and other Scandinavian rifles is the best in the world, and the steel is second to none- regardless of how many lugs are where. Did you ever notice some of the most expensive, high-end guns, can be really dorky looking ? Last edited by MR.MILSURP; January 10, 2012 at 01:03 PM.