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Old July 26, 2012, 06:01 PM   #102
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Join Date: December 3, 2011
Location: Bellevue, NE
Posts: 915
The difference is I would prefer to live in a society that treats me like a law-abiding citizen until I demonstrate otherwise by my actions. I don't want to live in a society that focuses in all the ways I might be a potential criminal.
The alternative is a society without laws. What are laws, after all, but the government foreseeing ways that people might misbehave and making rules in advance to disallow those actions. You might as well say that because there is a law against stealing, the government is treating you like a thief by imposing that law on you regardless of whether you are a thief or not.

We did try it. How do you think the NICS system came about? The Brady Law as originally passed in 1994 included a 5-day waiting period for all firearms sales. This waiting period was an interim requirement while NICS was established.
My question to you is this: Can you say with absolute certainty that waiting periods do no good? How can any of us know whether some potential spree killer was disuaded from killing because he was given a few days to calm down and think things over? There is no study that can quantify this, since there is no way to count how many times something did not happen. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Even if the prevention methods don't work every time, who is to say that they don't work at all?

I am not, by the way, a proponent of waiting periods or background checks for ammo purchases, or any of the other restrictions being discussed. I am simply saying that these things are not violations of our rights and should not be treated as though they are.

So, a poll tax is an infringement on the right to vote; but the laws you mention do not infringe the right to own a firearm?
Wow, now we are really off topic. Poll taxes, along with literacy tests, grandfather clauses, and quite a few other Jim Crow laws were enacted as a specific attempt to keep "undesireable" voters from excercising their rights to vote. Waiting periods, thorough background checks and paperwork do not keep you from purchasing firearms, they just add steps to the process. The end result of poll taxes and other Jim Crow laws was people being denied their right to vote. The end result of a waiting period is that you end up owining a gun a few days later than you wanted. One is a clear violation of rights, the other is not.

You might want to qualify that by limiting your statement to this particular speech, given President Obama's past statements in support of curtailing the rights of legal gun owners.
Perhaps I should have been more clear. Since this thread originated as a discussion of the speech the President made yesterday, I was engaging in debate based on that context. The main point that I have been trying to make is simply that this particular speech makes no statements about limiting the rights of citizens to legally purchase or possess guns, and there was nothing in the speech that makes it reasonable to assume that it is a harbinger of anti-gun legislation.

Can you define "infringed" and tell me why "shell not be infringed" was placed in the 2nd Amendment.

Infringe: to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another (Merriam-Webster )

When the 2nd ammendment says that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, it means that the rights must not be taken away. It does not mean that the government can't pass laws that make it take a few extra days to get the guns which we have a right to own. It simply means that the government must allow us to own them if that is our choice. Waiting periods and background checks don't stop the legal purchase of guns, therefore they are not, by definition, an infringement.
Some people are like Slinkies - not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.

A gun should be a tool in the hands of a deadly weapon, not a deadly weapon in the hands of a tool.
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