[sakeneko]

iam3KBS, nobody is saying your point of view is wrong. Many of us are saying that most women don't hold that point of view, were not brought up with that point of view, and do not see the issue of whether being able and willing to defend yourself is feminine or not in the same black and white, obvious terms that you do.

I grew up in Texas. My family was non-religious, but the "environment" was very religious, and I was taught as a child to say "Methodist" when asked what religion we were. (I didn't realize I was being taught to lie -- I thought everyone was born to some religion and we just didn't go to church.) The majority of people in my neighborhood were Baptist or were members of some other Evangelical church. As best I can tell, they held the same values you do about marriage and family.

I don't think a single woman among them would have viewed self-defense as you do, though. They seemed to think that part of being feminine involved dressing in ways that made them look good but got in the way of comfort and easy mobility (especially those *shoes*). They seemed to think that part of being feminine was being taken care of by men, not taking care of yourself.

I applaud your views. I think they make sense. But despite some superficial similarities you don't sound much like the women I grew up around. I think what WarMare is looking at is how to appeal to people who think more like the women I grew up with, *and* (paradoxically) more like a lot of women whose values and beliefs are less traditional but who also have issues about femininity and self defense.

Maybe what you said would be a good approach to the first group. I don't know, though -- you sound more like me than like them despite our differing attitudes towards marriage and family. ;-)