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Old November 29, 2001, 10:23 AM   #27
Tim Burke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 17, 1999
Posts: 551
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I also called it "the story" and "rant", nowhere did I say it was a literal event.
And nowhere did I suggest that you did. My point is that you discount concerns about execution scenarios as "very rare" while presenting an alternative scenario, which I believe to be even rarer. Hasher has cited a couple of cases in which the BGs invaded a home and executed everyone. You suggest that it doesn't matter that you can't cite a case similar to your scenario, because all the various parts of it have happened separately. The likelihood of several unrelated things occurring is determined by multiplying the likelihood of each thing occurring by itself. Thus, while your scenario is possible, mathematically it is very unlikely, and this is borne out by your inability to cite a case.
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I also don't recall any stories about successfully driving off 3 armed intruders who have the drop on you at a party.
Who said they had the drop on you? The original scenario said "They are now walking into your house with guns drawn." That is not the same thing.
While I don't recall any reports of defenses at parties, the party is actually immaterial to the discussion. The scenario is multiple armed assailants in an urban environment with non-combatants present. Picking 3 American Rifleman at random.
  • 10/93 - 11 episodes, none relevant.
  • 10/00 - 7 episodes, one of which involved a single BG with a shotgun, and the defender had to actually retreat to the bedroom to reach his weapon
  • 4/95 - 9 episodes. One involved 3 BGs, two armed. The defender retrieved a shotgun from his bedroom. #2- 3 robbers, one holding a gun, in a convenience store. Female clerk, male customer. Customer complies with robbers, gets shot in the chest anyway, and only then engages the BG as the BG is trying to shoot the clerk. The chest shot was stopped by a daily planner, and the shot at the clerk misfired. BG with gun gets shot, flees, and other two are held for the police. #3 - Man assaulted on Christmas Eve by two men that begin beating him with their pistols while he is bringing presents inside. They force their way into the home, knocking down the wife, but the victim accesses his gun, kills one and drives the other away. #4- 14 year old slashed on the arm in his own home, shoots BG with BB gun, and the BG flees.
Yeah, #4 doen't apply to this point, I'll mention it later. And, while I am pointing out errors in your interpretation of the original scenario...
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Firstly, who the hell brings OC grenades to a neighbors house party?
The incident that prompted this was at a neighbors house. The scenario as proposed was at your house.
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And since you mention statistics being dynamic....you're chances of being involved in a violent shootout increases dramatically if you're carrying a gun
Yes, I know. However, if being in a violent shootout becomes the best possible outcome, then you want that to be as likely as possible.
I don't see anyone suggesting that awareness and avoidance are bad things, but once the BGs are walking into your house with guns drawn, it's a little late for those two tactics. De-escalation might be an option, but you are giving the BGs the initiative. Engaging them as they come through the door may not be an unreasonable solution. They didn't come to your house looking for a fight, they came looking for victims, see #4 above. Being met with gunfire is a pretty clear indication that they aren't welcome. They might fight, but with that open door right behind them, the most likely result is that they will leave, and seek out easier prey.
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To me, as stated previously, a gun is a tool to be used for a pre-planned purpose.
Sounds like a rifle to me. My handgun is a piece of emergency response equipment. My neighborhood is very bureaucratic... they won't let me make an appointment for an emergency.
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You may also want to ditch the gun because if BGs are searching people
I just noticed this. Now I'm speechless.
BTW, winning the Special Olympics race doesn't make you any more retarded than you were to start.
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