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Jim243 · January 1, 2012, 12:35 AM

Interesting, very interesting. I too am a proponent of the 45 ACP for our troops in the field. But a lot of good points both ways were brought up as to what NATO should use. A lot of them have made me rethink my view and opinion. The sub-machinegun for one and it's wide spread use in Europe for Police and Military does make sense to use a single caliber for both, but it is not a common practice here in the US for the police to carry them. We are a shotgun society slowly changing over to a AR society both for police and civilians. And a 223 in a sidearm would be just too big and uncomfortable to carry around all day in a holster. And a Five-Seven while carryable is still an unproven round (takes about 40 years to get acceptance on a new caliber).

While a 20 round pistol (Five-Seven) and 100 round rifle (PS90) would be beneficial (Some police departments have gone to the PS90) it is just too radical at this time (but time will tell).

While a big time fan of the 45 ACP for self-defense, the size and weight of a full bore 1911 and limited capacity (8 rounds) of the pistol make it one I would not carry as a conceled weapon (recoil is more manageble than a 9 mm). And I too jumped on the 40 S&W bandwagon and felt it was very good at giving close to 45 ACP results in a lighter (plastic) gun with more rounds (15 vs 8). But the truth be told, because of the size and weight of the bullet it is a less manageable pistol round and more difficult to shoot well.

Which brings us back to full circle to my latest pruchase a CZ 75 P-01 in 9mm. Which would be my carry gun, if the jerks in Illinois ever pass a right to carry law. I have been shooting 9mm since 1973 and know it's limitations and it's advantages (short recovery time and excelent shot placement). So 5 rounds of 9mm should be just as effective as 2 rounds of 45 ACP.

But as to what our troops should be carring, this was decided almost 100 years ago, when the US changed over sidearms to the 45 ACP.(for a good reason) and nothing has changed except political considerations. It is a shame that todays US leaders have learned nothing from history. So our troops will need to relive the mistakes of 100 years ago.

As to platforms take a look at the FNH FMP-45 Tactical 45 ACP with 15 +1 rounds.

Thanks for putting up with my rant.
Jim

January 1, 2012, 12:35 AM	#76
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Interesting, very interesting. I too am a proponent of the 45 ACP for our troops in the field. But a lot of good points both ways were brought up as to what NATO should use. A lot of them have made me rethink my view and opinion. The sub-machinegun for one and it's wide spread use in Europe for Police and Military does make sense to use a single caliber for both, but it is not a common practice here in the US for the police to carry them. We are a shotgun society slowly changing over to a AR society both for police and civilians. And a 223 in a sidearm would be just too big and uncomfortable to carry around all day in a holster. And a Five-Seven while carryable is still an unproven round (takes about 40 years to get acceptance on a new caliber). While a 20 round pistol (Five-Seven) and 100 round rifle (PS90) would be beneficial (Some police departments have gone to the PS90) it is just too radical at this time (but time will tell). While a big time fan of the 45 ACP for self-defense, the size and weight of a full bore 1911 and limited capacity (8 rounds) of the pistol make it one I would not carry as a conceled weapon (recoil is more manageble than a 9 mm). And I too jumped on the 40 S&W bandwagon and felt it was very good at giving close to 45 ACP results in a lighter (plastic) gun with more rounds (15 vs 8). But the truth be told, because of the size and weight of the bullet it is a less manageable pistol round and more difficult to shoot well. Which brings us back to full circle to my latest pruchase a CZ 75 P-01 in 9mm. Which would be my carry gun, if the jerks in Illinois ever pass a right to carry law. I have been shooting 9mm since 1973 and know it's limitations and it's advantages (short recovery time and excelent shot placement). So 5 rounds of 9mm should be just as effective as 2 rounds of 45 ACP. But as to what our troops should be carring, this was decided almost 100 years ago, when the US changed over sidearms to the 45 ACP.(for a good reason) and nothing has changed except political considerations. It is a shame that todays US leaders have learned nothing from history. So our troops will need to relive the mistakes of 100 years ago. As to platforms take a look at the FNH FMP-45 Tactical 45 ACP with 15 +1 rounds. Thanks for putting up with my rant. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum Last edited by Jim243; January 1, 2012 at 12:47 AM.